BA2157 Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 Hi everybody, I got a WH 28 that just started giving me problems. It won't fire one or two shot burst or single shot in semi, it wants to run the full clip. It may fire two shots then next pull the whole clip. I have not had this problem before it just started it one day out at the gravel pit. I fired one 3o Rd clip at two to three shot burst just fine then the next 30 Rd clip it started, I shot a burst then it ran the clip and been that way since. I have tried different ammo, recoil springs, cleaning everything, clips, holding my mouth a different way and it still does it. Can any body help me, please. I am about ready to use it to stick some Tomato plants with it. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/unsure.gif BA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Jr Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 Replace everything in the lower and try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA2157 Posted June 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 John Jr you think maybe the sear spring my be gone weak and not jumping back up fast enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Jr Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 Possible, could be the disconnector as well... try that . Jr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA2157 Posted June 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 Thanks all I have replaced all the springs in the lower along with a new rocker, for the semi action, but still full auto till clip runs out. Its great for just dumping clips but will not burst groups or shoot semi more than twice. its like the bolt ain't comming back far enough for the sear to catch. I have had this gun since 1984 and I havent had any trouble till now. I am a machinist by trade and understand the workings of this model, but this don't add up. I though maybe my ammo wasint hot enough, I had some of my reloads, so I tried a box of miltary ball and still same song. I took the lower back down and check for burrs or anything out of the orinary and double clean and lube all, didn't see anythingout of place. Went outside with 10 Rd in clip and tried again. The first pull it shot twice then the secound pull it dumped the clip with out my finger on the trigger. You'all got me. BA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balder Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 Ammo not powerful enough and/or too strong recoil spring? Balder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA2157 Posted June 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 Hey Balder Do you reload and if so what load do you use in a Thompson? BA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldFalGuy Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 I am an admitted newbie with Thompsons but been around this stuff for 30 years. If as stated his sear/disconnector looks good could the surface of the bolt that contacts them be worn in some manner which results in these runaways?? JUst seems if he has been rocking along for many years the spring would not have gotten stronger and he has swapped aobut with good ball ammo it seems something has degraded to make this condition exist-Probably worng but that is how we learn. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkeye_Joe Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 That was my first thought when he stated that it was running away .. if it is not the lower parts that are the problem then try replacing the bolt or checking the bolt for problems. Seems like the bolt hold back catch is not functioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA2157 Posted June 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 That is my next guess is to try a new bolt. The old one looks ok, just shinny where the sear has been engageing it. Can't tell it it is whorn or not, don't have a new one yet to compare. I have fired this weapon on and off for the past 20 years and probabley ran 7000 to 8000 Rds through it so the bolt could posibly be shot. I will pick up a new one and try it. I got to get my Tommy Gun well again, I enjoy shooting it too much. I own four other Machine Guns but the Thompson is my favorite. Thank to all for the help BA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimFromFL Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 A lot of great advice. Here is some more info to muddy the waters. Is the ammo the same as before? Is the bolt being slowed down by either the mag, dirty ramp or barrel opening where the bullet sits? I have experienced problems that were attributed to the above. Good luck and let us know the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA2157 Posted June 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 Hey Jim I have tryed different ammo from hand loads, factory to miltary ball and all result same. I have tryed different clips from 30 rd, 20 rd and even a drum with same result. But what do you mean where bullet goes in barrel? I clean barrel out and looked with light and don't see anything. Is there something with the barrel I don't know or looking over. This condistion just started like you filp a switch. I shot a 30 rd clip at 2-3 shot burst and it shot fine, then the very next clip it started the run away problem. I tryed that first clip again and still run away. Did something happen to the throat of the barrel or maybe the chamber that I can't see? BA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balder Posted June 15, 2004 Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 BA2157, I use 230 grains home cast round nose bullets over 4.7 grains of Bullseye, works fine in the Thompson and my pistols. Good luck, hope you find the source of your trouble. Regards, Balder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantpanda4 Posted June 15, 2004 Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 Simple question - does the bolt stay back after the last shot? If not, the bolt isn't coming back far enough. Mainspring probably - or loads (as mentioned). If so, sear/trip/bolt should be OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted June 15, 2004 Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 I am not an expert, but I seem to remember and old post which someone (fullauto 45, I think) mentioned that you could put a piece of scotch tape where the acuator handle is SUPPOSED stop (across the top of the receiver.) After firing, look at the tape. If it is broken, the acuator went full travel. If not, it is short stroking. Regardless of why the bolt doesn't lock back, this should tell you IF the bolt is getting there to begin with. My $.02 worth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorcar Posted June 15, 2004 Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 I'll give you $5,000 for that broken down gun that won't run right! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA2157 Posted June 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2004 Hey thanks everybody for the help, giantpanda4 that is a good quest. no the bolt does not stay back after last shot, it is down agaisnt the mag. I ain't even though of that. By that, the bolt can't be going back to lock in the sear noch. But now why ain't it going back. My ammo is plenty hot, trying it will miltary ball. 230gr FMJ ball. Bolt moves fine by hand and is not binding will recoil spring. There is some rub marks in ejector grove on the bolt, think that might be enough to slow bolt down. The h-peice seams to be moveing slick. Question: If I take a wood dowel and run down the barrel and push against the bolt face to act as a round is being fired, how much pressure does it take to force the bolt back out of battery? Oh and Motorcar if I can't fix this and give up I will start the bidding at $5000.00. LOL Or still may stick a tomato plant with it. Norm I will try that tape thing tommorrow just to double check it. Good ideal. Again thanks all BA http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PK. Posted June 16, 2004 Report Share Posted June 16, 2004 Put a wooden dowel down the barrel against the bolt face and stand the gun on the end of the dowel on a bathroom scale, push on the butt- it usually takes about 40# to disengage the lock (don’t count the weight of the gun). Clean the top of the receiver with degreaser and use masking tape to determine the travel of the bolt. You have received very good direction concerning many possibilities that could be causing this. Something apparently has changed in the bolt, actuator, lock, receiver relationship and I am concerned about the possibility of metal being moved through battering over time. Insure that there is nothing in the recoil spring hole in the actuator (such as a piece of broken spring). If none of the suggestions offered throughout this thread produces a cure, I suggest you have it inspected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNKen Posted June 16, 2004 Report Share Posted June 16, 2004 I shot some Winchester White Box Wal-Mart special in my 28 with varying results. The ammo works fine for the most part, but occasionally I get a round that won't cycle the gun fully. When you let off the trigger, it only cocks to the second notch. IMI is hotter and consistent. I also have some Spanish and FN ball ammo from WWII that I haven't tried yet. Have you manually checked (cycled) the gun yet??? Cock the gun open, hold the actuator knob, and squeeze the trigger. Holding the trigger down, let the bolt go fuly home (not slam down) then re-cock with the trigger still held down. Go through several cycles, then start the bolt back and about half way through the cycle, let off the trigger and see what happens. I'm curious to see whether letting off the trigger will stop the bolt from cycling and let the gun re-cock. Not the same as with live ammo, but it might give you a hint of something. Good luck. These guys are better at this than I am, but that is my contribution. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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