rpbcps Posted April 8, 2023 Report Share Posted April 8, 2023 (edited) In Deerslayers topic 'The M1 Home Guard case', I stated in my post "Thompsons in Viola cases, which were probably a creation of Hollywood initially". This morning I was looking through some files entitled "Thompson photos to file" and found reference to a Albert Bates, involved in the kidnapping of oil man Charles F Urschel in 1933. The photo showed the Thompson that Bates had used, in a viola case. So perhaps I was mistaken and Thompsons in Viola or Violin cases, were not a creation of Hollywood. Does anyone else know of historical references to criminals / gangsters using viola cases to transport / hide their Thompsons? Edited April 8, 2023 by rpbcps Typo.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dillinger Posted April 8, 2023 Report Share Posted April 8, 2023 Awesome original photo with all that additional detail giving it so much nostalgia. As for violin/viola cases it would seem the latter were used on occasion. The key for me is that the weapon pictured could be kept in a locked and loaded configuration with a stick mag. This wouldn’t be possible within the tight confines of a violin case. For me is the deal breaker being ready to go if the heat came around the corner. As you well know Richard, the suitcase is my preferred method of transport when on the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gijive Posted April 8, 2023 Report Share Posted April 8, 2023 (edited) If you look at the picture closely, you will see that the gun is an MGC Replica, popular in the 1970’s. Sorry, but it is a fake photo. The giveaways are the sling on the butt stock and the incorrect shape of the wood pistol grips. Not to mention the MGC sticker on the left rear of the receiver. Edited April 8, 2023 by gijive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpbcps Posted April 8, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2023 18 minutes ago, gijive said: If you look at the picture closely, you will se that the gun is an MGC Replica, popular in the 1970’s. Sorry, but it is a fake photo. The giveaways are the sling on the butt stock and the incorrect shape of the wood pistol grips. Not to mention the MGC sticker on the right rear of the receiver. Well spotted, so back to the Hollywood theory, unless anyone else has any historical references? 😂 To be honest, I did not look to close at the Thompson, I did not see the forest for the trees, as they say, too busy reading the caption on the back of the photo. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dillinger Posted April 8, 2023 Report Share Posted April 8, 2023 59 minutes ago, gijive said: If you look at the picture closely, you will se that the gun is an MGC Replica, popular in the 1970’s. Sorry, but it is a fake photo. The giveaways are the sling on the butt stock and the incorrect shape of the wood pistol grips. Not to mention the MGC sticker on the left rear of the receiver. So what do you reckon to this photo? Fake or real deal in your opinion? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gijive Posted April 8, 2023 Report Share Posted April 8, 2023 That is a real photo. It is dated 1935, so it is a Colt gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HANS Posted April 8, 2023 Report Share Posted April 8, 2023 1 hour ago, gijive said: If you look at the picture closely, you will se that the gun is an MGC Replica, popular in the 1970’s. Sorry, but it is a fake photo. The giveaways are the sling on the butt stock and the incorrect shape of the wood pistol grips. Not to mention the MGC sticker on the left rear of the receiver. Aside of the obvious visual problems, the gun seized from Bates (or rather from a locker rented by Bates) was a Model 1921A, not Model 1921AC. That said, I've come across quite a few period references to the use of viola, banjo, or guitar cases. Also violin, although those were very obviously too small. Cheers HANS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HANS Posted April 8, 2023 Report Share Posted April 8, 2023 The photo shows film star Mae West. She received tutoring in using the Thompson after having received kidnapping threats in 1935. Cheers HANS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HANS Posted April 8, 2023 Report Share Posted April 8, 2023 Just now, HANS said: The photo shows film star Mae West. She received tutoring in using the Thompson after having received kidnapping threats in 1935. (Edit: D'oh, it says so on the back of the card ). Cheers HANS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpbcps Posted April 8, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2023 31 minutes ago, HANS said: Aside of the obvious visual problems, the gun seized from Bates (or rather from a locker rented by Bates) was a Model 1921A, not Model 1921AC. That said, I've come across quite a few period references to the use of viola, banjo, or guitar cases. Also violin, although those were very obviously too small. Cheers HANS Just checked todays date, it is the 8th April, not the 1st...🙄 I wonder why someone would fake such a photo, any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dillinger Posted April 8, 2023 Report Share Posted April 8, 2023 38 minutes ago, HANS said: The photo shows film star Mae West. She received tutoring in using the Thompson after having received kidnapping threats in 1935. Cheers HANS Yes Hans it’s all on the back but you knew without looking so hats off to you Sir 👌 Great photo to have in my collection 👌 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gijive Posted April 8, 2023 Report Share Posted April 8, 2023 1 hour ago, rpbcps said: Just checked todays date, it is the 8th April, not the 1st...🙄 I wonder why someone would fake such a photo, any ideas? rpbcps, Although the photo is not dated, the back portion of the photo has a stamp with the zip code present, which they didn't have in 1933. Not to mention the pictures of Al Capone and Bonnie and Clyde included for some odd reason. Someone just wanted to to be "smart" and make a photo that resembled the real thing. Not sure why people do that, but it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig Posted April 8, 2023 Report Share Posted April 8, 2023 Is the ammo military? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpbcps Posted April 8, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2023 17 minutes ago, gijive said: rpbcps, Although the photo is not dated, the back portion of the photo has a stamp with the zip code present, which they didn't have in 1933. Not to mention the pictures of Al Capone and Bonnie and Clyde included for some odd reason. Someone just wanted to to be "smart" and make a photo that resembled the real thing. Not sure why people do that, but it happens. I had spotted the Zip code and presumed, wrongly, that was added later with the address of the owner. I have seen that done with old AOC handbooks in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john Posted April 8, 2023 Report Share Posted April 8, 2023 As Sig noticed, ammo is WWII packef pistol ball. Viola case also has cheap modern stamped hasps/latches as found on many of the FBI repop cases from the 70's and 80's. Zip codes were not a thing until 1961 but as stated, could gave been stamped at any time. The cellophane tape however, does indeed appear original..... 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpbcps Posted April 9, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2023 Lesson learned, I will steer away from pre war era Thompsons, particularly photographs, in the future and stick to something more in my area of Knowledge.. I still can't figure out why someone would fake a photo, can't see any benefit from that? 🙄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john Posted April 9, 2023 Report Share Posted April 9, 2023 To the untrained eye its a cool picture. Even to the trained eye its a cool picture. Anything that kick-starts the imagination is cool, IMHO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Sensei Posted April 10, 2023 Report Share Posted April 10, 2023 On 4/8/2023 at 7:46 AM, HANS said: The photo shows film star Mae West. She received tutoring in using the Thompson after having received kidnapping threats in 1935. Cheers HANS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Sensei Posted April 10, 2023 Report Share Posted April 10, 2023 I attached three pages in 2020 of an article I wrote on the Mae West kidnapping. I think if you type in "Mae West" it will probably come up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpbcps Posted July 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2023 I may have answered my own question, discovered this photo from the 1920's, showing what I am led to believe is a Chigaco police detective holding a violin case with a TSMG in it. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Sensei Posted July 20, 2023 Report Share Posted July 20, 2023 Mae was a modest woman who shunned the spotlight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ppgcowboy Posted July 21, 2023 Report Share Posted July 21, 2023 4 hours ago, rpbcps said: I may have answered my own question, discovered this photo from the 1920's, showing what I am led to believe is a Chigaco police detective holding a violin case with a TSMG in it. I am not sure a Thompson with a vertical grip can fit into a Violin case. The grip will have to be removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpbcps Posted July 21, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, ppgcowboy said: I am not sure a Thompson with a vertical grip can fit into a Violin case. The grip will have to be removed. Ppgcowboy, looking at the photo I posted, I would agree; maybe it is a publicity photo to assure the public that a Thompson will not fit into a violin case 🤔 As we are both members of the 'Gordon Herigstad viola case owners club', we know that is not the case, no pun intended, for the viola cases. Edited July 21, 2023 by rpbcps Typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ppgcowboy Posted July 21, 2023 Report Share Posted July 21, 2023 100% agree. I think the photo was to give the illusion it fit to the untrained eye. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gijive Posted July 21, 2023 Report Share Posted July 21, 2023 rpbcps, That is a picture of John Stege, I believe he was the Chief of Detectives at the time the photo was taken. Yes, it was just a publicity photo, taken along with others of Stege holding the Thompson. The picture has been posted on this site before, many year ago. Stege was accused of taking money from the gangsters and was suspended for a time, he was eventually reinstated. He is quoted in many articles in the Chicago newspapers of the day. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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