NOBUCKL Kerr Slings With Larger Font & Different Location of Patent Date

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

Seems these 1903/1917 marked NOBUCKL Kerr slings are not as frequently encountered as the other type. Not sure if these were the latest Kerr slings manufactured before the unmarked WWII TSMG slings. Patent Dates are larger, stamped higher on the spring latch piece  and have periods rather than dashes .

3 DIFFERENT EXAMPLES OF THE SLINGS.

[TSMGguy]

Not all Nobuckl slings were M1917 slings produced under military contract. They were manufactured for a number of years in several civilian market variations, including some with leather straps. 

I've never encountered an M1917 sling that was M1903 or M1917 marked, just the 1914 patent date.

The US did not procure M1917 slings in a shorter length for the M1903 rifle. This notional sling is a marketing idea by Jerry at What Price Glory.  

Edited May 25, 2023 by TSMGguy

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

1 hour ago, TSMGguy said:

Not all Nobuckl slings were M1917 slings produced under military contract. They were manufactured for a number of years in several civilian market variations, including some with leather straps. 

I've never encountered an M1917 sling that was M1903 or M1917 marked, just the 1914 patent date.

The US did not procure M1917 slings in a shorter length for the M1903 rifle. This notional sling is a marketing idea by Jerry at What Price Glory.  

Indeed. Never seen anyone claim the slings were marked with type of rifle nomenclature as the only markings on the ones marked had NOBUCKL and the patent info.  These cotton web slings came in different lengths as well.  Some with the floating ring. Some without. Early ones had all brass including the spring clip parts, while the later spring clips were made of steel.  Just wondering when the NOBUCKL patent date stampings and their location were changed from the usual markings as seen in the below photos.

There doesn't seem to be any info on when the markings were changed or if both type markings were occurring simultaneously on these web slings

[ron_brock]

Not to venture too far off topic, but I’d anyone has more details on the leather NOBUCKL I would love to know more.  I have one, but would venture they are pretty scarce/low survival?

 

Thanks,

Ron

[RoscoeTurner]

Arthur, good question.  I own a number of these slings but never paid that much attention to the position of the markings.  Digging rifles and Thompsons out to check looks like a good project for me tomorrow.

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

5 hours ago, ron_brock said:

Not to venture too far off topic, but I’d anyone has more details on the leather NOBUCKL I would love to know more.  I have one, but would venture they are pretty scarce/low survival?

 

Thanks,

Ron

1920 Navy Department document  comparing the  web slings to the  leather slings and concluding the web slings were not superior to the leather slings. Are the leather slings in question the NOBUCKL type pictured below? 

[ron_brock]

That is some great information Arthur.  Yes it’s just like the pictured.  I will take some pictures of it and add to this post for posterity.  A bit off your topic, but this is a great NOBUCKL thread.  I will check my couple of web slings for marking position as well.

Ron 

[TSMGguy]

I'd guess the leather slings referred to Navy Department corrrespondence above were M1907 slings, the only rifle slings in adoption in 1920?

[TSMGguy]

Original leather Kerr sling:

 

 

 

 

[Bridgeport28A1]

Here are my two marked NOBUCKL slings. One each of the marking variations. They are different lengths and both are longer than my unmarked KERR Thompson slings.

Measurements are:

Short stap 15 3/8"

Long strap 50"

Short strap 14 1/4"

Long strap 42"

Edited May 27, 2023 by Bridgeport28A1
added sling measurements

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

7 hours ago, TSMGguy said:

Original leather Kerr sling:

That same photo is what SARCO uses to sell their repro "Springfield Rifle Leather Kerr Slings."

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

6 hours ago, Bridgeport28A1 said:

Here are my two marked NOBUCKL slings. One each of the marking variations. They are different lengths and both are longer then a unmarked KERR Thompson sling.

Thanks for the pics and the measurements.

Quote

"The M1917 used the same M1907  leather sling that was used on the M1903. The M1917 (Kerr "NOBICKL")  was also commonly used on the M1917 rifle. The Kerr Adjustable Strap Company manufactured these two-piece khaki colored web slings." 

From "The UK Pattern 1913, Pattern 1914, and the US Model of 1917; A Short History of The American Enfield" by Marc Gorelick

And yet genuine authentic NOBUCKL marked cotton web slings (not repro What Price Glory or other repro outfits) are reported by owners in the following lengths (not including the unmarked WWII M3 TSMG Slings). Which NOBUCKL slings  were  issued or intended  for which Model year rifle is not the  concern here:

Short Piece: 15"          Long Piece: 46" 1/2

Short Piece: 16" 1/2    Long Piece:  51" 1/2

Short Piece: 15 1/2      Long Piece:  49" 1/4

Short Piece: 12" 7/8     Long Piece: 44" 5/8

Short Piece: 13" 1/3      Long Piece:  52 1/4

Short Piece:  13" 7/8     Long Piece: 49" 1/2

Even allowing for stretching and non standard measurement guidelines, there obviously were three  different NOBUCKL cotton web sling lengths. The differences in the NOBUCKL markings also suggest the slings may be generally the same but certainly not identical. As the leather NOBUCKL has the dashes between the patent dates and the lower position of the dates on the latches, the periods between the dates may suggest these markings were of a latter NOBUCKL manufacture rather than being produced simultaneously when these web slings first appeared. As the NOBUCKL patent was initially for a saddle stirrup, pinning down the actual date may be difficult. 

 

 

 

Edited May 27, 2023 by Arthur Fliegenheimer

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

1919 Kerr Web Sling Advertisement. "Made in Special Sizes."  This would account for the discrepancy in lengths of these slings. "Brass Fittings with Black Nickel Finish."   When did Kerr discontinue these web NOBUCKL marked slings? 

 

 

 

 

[TSMGguy]

Attaching the M1917 sling to the M1903 rifle:

 

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

The above period illustration doesn't make clear how the brass clips are maneuvered through the swivels. Below is an excellent video illustrating how to install the Kerr NOBUCKL sling with the free floating ring on a 1917.  In the comment section there is confusion about the Kerr NOBUCKL slings without the free floating ring as to how it would attach on the 1903 and 1917.  Regardless of the various  lengths of the short and long pieces found on the marked Kerr NOBUCKL slings, they are interchangeable between the rifles.