dalbert Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 All, I recently purchased two posters from an individual in China. One is a Thompson parts poster, and one is a Sten parts poster. The writing is in Chinese, so I can't read what they say, but the seller indicated they are dated 1949, and are from what he called the People's Liberation Army. There is no doubt these are old paper items, and it looks to me like they were used on some kind of flip reference chart, judging from the holes at the top of each poster. I'd like to find someone who can read Chinese, and potentially translate them for me. 1949 Chinese Thompson Poster: http://www.sturmgewehr.com/dalbert/MGBoards/Manuals/Chinese_TSMG_Poster_Web.JPG 1949 Chinese Sten Poster: http://www.sturmgewehr.com/dalbert/MGBoards/Manuals/Chinese_Sten_Poster_Web.JPG I believe there is a lot more to the story of the Thompson in China. While I have not discussed this topic yet online, two years ago, I purchased a large lot of quite intriguing paperwork that documents movement of at least 100 Colt Thompsons, and many pistols, as well as a 1917 Stutz Bearcat automobile to China in 1923, in an effort put forth by a photographer in San Francisco to furnish the Nationalist Chinese with weapons. That photographer still has a following today, based on the photographic backdrops he made and used, which are apparently sought after and collected today. I will eventually write an article on the subject, but I would like to gather more information first. Recently, there was a Chinese firearm book from the 1940's for sale that had a chapter on the Thompson. I didn't get the book, but it lends to the idea that more information may be out there about the use of the Thompson in China. I have also looked at the pictures of the many Thompsons in a museum in Beijing, and think that some new information might be available from that resource. So, I'm posting this subject for your comments, in hopes that more infomation about the use of the Thompson in China may come forth. Feel free to comment, and post anything you know about the subject. David Albert dalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james m Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 I may be able to add a bit more to your story. I purchased an M1A1 parts kit about 20 years ago from an operation in Illinois which is now defunct. The small parts were in separate packaging and this packaging was written in Vietnamese! I have talked to Vets from Vietnam and was told that they would run across VC armed with Thompsons from time to time. I have never been able to find out anything officially but it is know that Thompsons were given to Chang Kai Chek(SP?) when he was fighting against the Reds. Apparentely many were left behind when he and his followers fled to Taiwan and some of these were given to the Viet Cong. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk VII Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 Large numbers of Thompsons (and most of the other WW2 generation smallarms) were supplied to the ARVN; these rapidly found their way to the VC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james m Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 Large numbers of Thompsons (and most of the other WW2 generation smallarms) were supplied to the ARVN; these rapidly found their way to the VC. I was aware of the fact that large numbers of M1 carbines were supplied to the South vietnamese troops due to their stature but I wasn't aware of the fact that they were also given large numbers of Thompsons. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkeye_Joe Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 Add this to the list Dave... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/Hawkeye/WWII%20pics/JapaneseThompson.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted March 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 Add this to the list Dave... Hawkeye Joe, What is that from? The image is labeled as a Japanese Thompson... David Albert dalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 (edited) Dave, I just sent copy of your Thompson picture to my buddy. His wife is FOB mainland. Ting said it's old (40's) and the copy I sent her was not very good but it is Chinese and the top line says "American Thompson xxx Gun" . She wasn't sure of the Chinese translation fo machinegun as se din't know what she was looking at. (not a gun person) If you can send me a better copy she will be able to do better on the translation. Bob Edited March 7, 2011 by Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrt4me Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 I could get these translated for you on Monday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkeye_Joe Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 (edited) Dave, I labeled it as Japanese when I first found it but have been told since that it is in Chinese...I think it is from a Thompson/US, possibly British manual for Chinese troops from WWII. Edited March 6, 2011 by Hawkeye_Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimFromFL Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 I could get these translated for you on Monday. I would be interested to know what they read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nirvana Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 I don't know any Chinese, but I do know that I would be interested in buying a good quality photocopy of that Sten poster, perhaps the Thompson too if the price were right. What are the dimensions? C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpbcps Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 Large numbers of Thompsons (and most of the other WW2 generation smallarms) were supplied to the ARVN; these rapidly found their way to the VC. I was aware of the fact that large numbers of M1 carbines were supplied to the South vietnamese troops due to their stature but I wasn't aware of the fact that they were also given large numbers of Thompsons. Jim As a former French Foreign legionnaire, I know a lot of history from French Indo China in the 1940's and 1950's. The French forces were then armed with a large number of US weapons including Thompsons. Dien Bien Phu was one large battle that was lost by the French and a large amount of weapons and equipment would have been captured by the enemy. The French Army had a lot of US equipment still in Service in the 1980's. In 1984 I did my driving test in a WW2 US Dodge 6x6 and we had plenty of US GMC's and Jeeps in service in Djibouti back in 1985 - 1987. I also recall using entrenching tools and grenade pouches marked 'US' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMGguy Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Trying to untangle a bowl of spaghetti might be far easier than trying to track any particular arms shipment, other than something as potentially simple as the possible shipment of '21s to China mentioned by dalbert. Commercially purchased and US and foreign government property turned into foreign military aid turned into captured booty turned into aid to various client states and factions and wars of liberation. On and on. The end of the line comes only when ammo is no longer available for a particular piece, or it wears out, or due to obsolescense, declining numbers or a lack of spare parts the item is no longer useful in the hands of anyone, no matter how desperate they are for arms. Then the cycle begins anew, with updated weaponry, which has a life cycle of its own. The well never runs dry. Arms makers and merchants and the governments that they pay for see to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sculptor Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 The Thompson had wide use in China both imported and "homemade" guns. We sent thousands of Thompsons to Chinese Army's during the war and additional thousands of Thompsons to the Nationalists after the war to fight the Communists. I have the remains of a Thompson that was used by the Communists in Korea. It was discussed here a few months ago. When I researched the Thompson in Korea I found that thousands were used at the Yalu River attack in 1950. Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balder Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 The Chinese must have had some pretty cramped shooting ranges... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/Balder_/Thompson/chinathomp1.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bug Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 The Chinese must have had some pretty cramped shooting ranges... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/Balder_/Thompson/chinathomp1.jpg Damn. Any idea where/when photo was taken? Could they all be Colt's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balder Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 (edited) bug, The picture supposedly shows communist Chinese troops in 1937, which would make them all Colts. I doubt the communist troops theory though, they seem too well equipped to be communists forces as early as 1937. Edited March 11, 2011 by Balder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLansky Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 The Chinese manufactured an exact copy of the colt 1921. here is a picture. These guns are discussed in the January 2005 issue of SAR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndArmored Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 My Chinese students offered this translation: Top line (large font) = Infantry light & heavy weapon hanging picture 2nd line = American-made Thompson submachine gun vertical line = military educational diagram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted March 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 My Chinese students offered this translation: Top line (large font) = Infantry light & heavy weapon hanging picture 2nd line = American-made Thompson submachine gun vertical line = military educational diagram 2ndArmored, Thank you very much! Did any of them note a date on the poster? The seller indicated it is dated 1949, and I have no reason to doubt that, but I'd like to see if I could get a secondary confirmation. I may need to take a more detailed picture. David Albert dalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndArmored Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 My Chinese students offered this translation: Top line (large font) = Infantry light & heavy weapon hanging picture 2nd line = American-made Thompson submachine gun vertical line = military educational diagram 2ndArmored, Thank you very much! Did any of them note a date on the poster? The seller indicated it is dated 1949, and I have no reason to doubt that, but I'd like to see if I could get a secondary confirmation. I may need to take a more detailed picture. David Albert dalbert@sturmgewehr.com Sorry, nothing else was legible given the size & clarity of the photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted March 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 All, I found this related thread about some 1930's Chinese .45 ACP ammunition on the International Ammunition Association forum. http://iaaforum.org/forum3/viewtopic.php?f...f=8&t=10303 The fact that examples of such ammunition still exist is pretty amazing, considering the number of conflicts in which it had the opportunity to be consumed. I guess that can be said of a lot of ammunition... David Albert dalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoscoeTurner Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 This thread has information regarding post war Chinese 45 ACP production - http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/ind...t=0#entry104966 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sculptor Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Here are a number of Chinese weapons that date from around 1900 to the Korean War. This was in a previous post but I thought related to the topic. Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted March 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Here are a number of Chinese weapons that date from around 1900 to the Korean War. This was in a previous post but I thought related to the topic. Dick Sculptor, Very cool picture! David Albert dalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now