Chinese Thompson Gunners

[Big Al]

Allied Chinese soldier of the CEF poses for a photo during the Battle of Northern Burma, part of the Western Yunnan-Burma Campaign against the Imperial Japanese Army, October 1943.

 

On the left, a soldier from the Chinese expeditionary Force (CEF) clearing the Burma Road of enemy Japanese forces out of the Salween River from Burma to China. On the right, an American-trained and equipped Chinese infantryman, clearing the Stilwell Road from Ledo, India to the Salween River. Both, veterans of the Burma campaign, stand side by side at opening of Ledo, India to Kunming, China Road. Note the locally fabricated magazine pouch on the Thompson-armed man's belt.

 

And a bonus.

Unknown American unit, unknown location, unknown date. Soldier with Thompson making use of captured MP40 Magazine pouch.

[StooperZero]

last pic is in germany, possibly a movie theater or opera house/play house.

[Big Al]

Good catch! I hadn't noticed the sign when I found the photo. I was focused on another search.

[jim c 351]

Just think, in less that 10 years those friendly Chinese tommy gunners would turn their guns on American troops in Korea.

Jim C

[kanemono]

Here is a Thompson that was captured from the Chinese by the Marines at the Chosen.

[rpbcps]

Just think, in less that 10 years those friendly Chinese tommy gunners would turn their guns on American troops in Korea.

Jim C

 

 

 

Another photo for the album, Chinese Nationalist Sentries, one armed with an M1 / M1A1, relieve US Marines at Chinwangtao in Oct. 1946, found on The China Marines website.

 

Jim, Indeed, I read the Chinese used the Thompson to some noteworthy effect during part of the Chinese Second Offensive in Korea, (November–December 1950), in the Chosin Reservoir campaign, attacking the U.S. 1st Marine Division, in below zero temperatures.

 

Stay safe

Richard

[giantpanda4]

Kanemono,

 

Any idea what the tag on the M1 says?

[kanemono]

This Thompson belonged to First Lieutenant James H. Dill who was the forward observer for the Seventh Division’s 31st field artillery and was the only forward observer attached to the First Marine Regiment. On September 25, 1950, the Marines were charged by a dozen tanks and self-propelled guns of the NKPA Brigade. The Marines fired their howitzers until the tubes became so hot that they had to cease fire. The Marines asked for 155mm howitzer fire from the Army. The 31st Field Artillery Battalion responded with awesome firepower, 360 rounds along the 3rd Battalion, First Marines direct front. The fire mission destroyed remaining NKPA tanks. First Lt. Dill was the FO standing with Colonel “Chesty” Puller who directed the 31st Field Artillery Battalion’s fire. Dill later served as executive officer of Battery B, 31st Field Artillery during the march to the Yalu River and during the disastrous retreat to Hamhung. Dill was written up for and awarded the Bronze Star Medal by Colonel Puller for his actions during the recapture of Seoul.

This Thompson submachine gun was presented to First Lieutenant Dill by officers of the 3rd Battalion, First Marines before he left Korea in 1951. Dill placed a note behind the trap door in the stock of the Thompson. In the note Lieutenant Colonel Dill stated that the Thompson was captured from the Chinese and used by Marines during their escape from the Yalu. Entire Chinese regiments were armed with Lend Lease Thompsons, and thousands more were captured from the Nationalist Chinese during the civil war.

[Bridgeport28A1]

Thanks for the rest of the story on the M1

[giantpanda4]

Very interesting! Thanks for keeping the History alive!

[azboater]

Excellent backstory

Thanks!

[brazos609]

Here is a Thompson that was captured from the Chinese by the Marines at the Chosen.

 

That looks like the most dangerous holster ever designed on the center of the photo.

[ron_brock]

 

Here is a Thompson that was captured from the Chinese by the Marines at the Chosen.

 

That looks like the most dangerous holster ever designed on the center of the photo.

Possibly. My favorite of all time was a small holster that held the barrel of the gun pointing up hanging from a chain that could be hung around your neck. It was designed for small Derringers. Basically the barrel was pointing at your chin. I have a pic somewhere of it, but doubt I could find it easily. Used to be advertised in Shotgun News.

 

Ron

[rpbcps]

Attached is a photo of a very happy Chinese soldier, serving with the Chinese Expeditionary Force in Burma, 1944.

 

 

and another photo from Burma, showing a Chinese soldier comparing Thompsons with a US Army sergeant, serving with the 5307th Composite Unit (Provisional), better known as the Merrill's Marauders, again taken in 1944.

 

 

Stay safe

 

Richard

[StooperZero]

My favorite of all time was a small holster that held the barrel of the gun pointing up hanging from a chain that could be hung around your neck.

 

 

 

there was one it was a big rubber plug that went into the derringer barrel on a necklace.

 

 

FAC sold all of that weirdo stuff as well, I've seen a pic of a chinese officer with a rope necklace attached to the trigger guard of his c96.

[ron_brock]

 

My favorite of all time was a small holster that held the barrel of the gun pointing up hanging from a chain that could be hung around your neck.

 

 

 

there was one it was a big rubber plug that went into the derringer barrel on a necklace.

 

 

FAC sold all of that weirdo stuff as well, I've seen a pic of a chinese officer with a rope necklace attached to the trigger guard of his c96.

Yeah I think that's the one. It was for a Derringer, but I could not tell how the barrel was stuck into the holster part of it.

 

Ron

[rpbcps]

Stumbled on another couple of photos today, while searching for information on the numbers of Thompson guns that were shipped to the Soviet Union, through lend lease. I did found some interesting tables with figures on that subject.... but here are the photos of Thompson guns in Chinese service.

 

 

Have a good weekend

 

Richard

 

 

These look like Model of 1921's, or are they Chinese copies?

 

 

[michaelkih]

kanemono, wow. Is that Thompson yours? Great piece of history!

[Big Al]

Thanks for the contributions, Richard! Note the interesting action cover on the gun in the first photo.

[rpbcps]

Thanks for the contributions, Richard! Note the interesting action cover on the gun in the first photo.

Big Al,

Indeed it is, and here are a couple more interesting photos.

 

Stay safe

Richard

 

 

[rpbcps]

Just think, in less that 10 years those friendly Chinese tommy gunners would turn their guns on American troops in Korea.

Jim C

 

Jim,

On this subject, I Just came across some Chinese propaganda art from the Korean war, showing the Chinese 'People's Volunteer Army' at the "Five Peaks Mountain Battle", in which some of the PVA are armed with US1928A1's.

 

 

Stay safe

 

Richard

[halftrack]

If you read the book Last Stand of Fox Company, the author states that the Chinese rushing their positions were just about all armed with Thompson SMGs. Mostly M1s I think.

[allweaponsww2]

Hello everybody! I tried to understand the Chinese history of the Thompson. This is a very broad topic. I will try to briefly describe the main thing. If someone completes or corrects, I will be glad!

PS: Sorry for my English)

 

Thompson's Chinese History can be divided into three parts

 

1. Early (until 1941)

 

For me, it remains a mystery how the Colt-Thompsons got to China in the 1920s and 1930s. There are several sources pointing to this. It was not numerous I suppose. However, this should have been enough to please the Chinese military and organize the mass production of copies of the TSMGs at home.

 

 

Photo from Popular mechanics magazine, 1925

 

Just a few TSMGs came to China with the US MC during the Civil War in China.

In 1927, the 4th US Marine Corps was deployed in Shanghai to ensure the safety of American citizens. They had 182 Thompson M1921AC.

Marines participated in the defense of the International Quarter in Shanghai in 1927, 1932 and 1937-1941. And they were evacuated a month before the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.

 

 

Marine demonstration firing from M1921AC, China October, 1927

Marines patrolling in Shanghai, China, 1927

Marines of Company F, 2nd Battalion, Shanghai 1937

There are interesting photos. On which the Red Army of China poses in front of foreign journalists in Shaanxi Province, 1937. It is known that back in 1936, the Chinese Communists and the Kuomintang united to fight Japan.

These TSMGs resemble M1921A. although it is possible that these are Chinese copies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2. Chinese copies of the Thompsons (1930-1950s).

 

 

As already stated, China has begun issuing its unlicensed copies of the Thompson SMG. It was the same as Mauser 98 rifles, Mauser C96 Pistols, Maxim machine guns, etc.

They could not buy weapons directly from the AOC (although perhaps it would be the largest buyer at that time), because the United States had an arms embargo against China. Also in 1935, 1936, 1937 and 1939, the United States passed the Neutrality Act, which prohibits the supply of weapons to any warring countries.

So there are various photos of different models of copies of the TSMG. These models have different workmanship. It is known that Taiyuan Arsenal (Shaanxi Province) was engaged in the production of copies.

Some chinese copies photoes

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

After 1945, when the Communists began to supplant the Chiang Kai-shek Army, they captured a large number of Thompsons. They converted it under the cartridge 7.62x25 Tokorev. Such SMGs were also used in the War in Korea later.

 

 

 

 

 

3. Lend-Lease Thompson for China (1941-1945).

Sino-American cooperation.

 

When Japan began its aggression against China, the United States began to think about military-economic assistance for this country. From 1939 to 1941, even before the adoption of the Lend-Lease Act, the United States provided assistance to China in the amount of $ 120 million.

And on May 6, 1941 (7 months before the United States joined WWII !), China's defense was recognized as vital to US security. At that time, "China Defense Supplies" was organized as the official government of China under the Lend-Lease program. Military cargo went from the USA to India and from there by Airlift and along the "Burmese Road" to Southeast China.

In total, during the WWII, the United States provided various assistance to China in the amount of $ 1.6 billion.

 

 

Burmans Road, 1944

 

 

 

There is a document on the supply of weapons. It shows that China received 63.251 SMGs .45 cal. most of this TSMG I put it.

 

 

 

 

Also in 1942, the OSS created an organization in China - the Sino-American Cooperative Organization (SACO). The main tasks of which included diversionary activity against the Japanese troops and meteorological observations for aviation.

 

Chinese troops in Burma and Yunnan Province since 1942 were almost completely equipped with American weapons and equipment.

 

Some photoes Chines Army WW2

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 16, 2020 by allweaponsww2

[cbmott]

Allweaponsww2 that’s a great summary. It’s not surprising Thompson’s made it through to Chinese forces fighting the Japanese pre Pearl Harbor. China’s need for weapons even after the alliance between the communists/nationalists (Kuomintang) and independent warlords was massive. They sought and received military training/aid from Germany before Japan signed the Tripartite Act with them, then the Soviet Union (that Japan considered the real issue) until aid slowed due to the German invasion, and finally us though official and less official means. Japan listed not only the lifting the oil embargo but the cessation of aid to China as conditions for an agreement between the US and Japan to prevent war.

 

For a size comparison records show Chinese forces would regularly suffer up to 10 times as many casualties in major engagements with the Japanese to the tens of thousands but also caused Japan to send a significant amount of men and material that would be tied up and not fighting other important players (Soviets). Like you said this led to official Lend Lease shipments on our part later on due to how important it was to keep Chinese forces in the fight.

 

Chinese Nationalist forces took the brunt of the hits and lost a lot of their best trained men from fighting the Japanese which would play a factor in their less than ideal strength/capability to fight the Communists once the civil war resumed after Japan was defeated as well as their eventual defeat. This later played a role in us getting some of our Thompson’s back in Korea.