kruuth Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 This is from BlackDog. I know I'm going to be ordering one of these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancer Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 This is from BlackDog. I know I'm going to be ordering one of these. 11 second video and you're ready to order???? I think I'll wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kruuth Posted February 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 This is from BlackDog. I know I'm going to be ordering one of these. 11 second video and you're ready to order???? I think I'll wait. Actually I'll say I know a little more than what's in the video.... That's Merle's 22 conversion kit. Looks like BlackDog will be making them. Given those two then yes, sign me up. Merle is a genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerslayer Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Not every day you get a brief look inside santa's workshop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUTTERRATT Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Sounds like it would be some work to swap it out, Would you have to change the barrels back and forth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kruuth Posted February 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Sounds like it would be some work to swap it out, Would you have to change the barrels back and forth That's all I know so far. I'm praying it's just an alternative to the Ceiner kit. Even if he's charging more for it I'd pay it since I really don't feel like dealing with Ceiner's crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilOhio Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Kruuth has it about right. Yes, it's an "alternative" to the Ciener kit. From the short video clip, you noticed that it has a realistic rate of fire, unlike that "other" one. That's because it uses the additional bolt weight moldification, which I've mentioned here before, when we were just playing with the concept. And again, no, the weights don't and can't "come out" during firing. I believe the Blackdog mags are being, or will be made, from new injection molds so the new mag is a dedicated variation that snaps right into a Thompson, without any adaptor. Before this, Merle had been sacrificing wartime stick mags to fasten the amputated metal mounting rib onto the back of a Blackdog mag. No more need for that, from now on. I expect the new mags may be slightly more expensive than the original mags, intended for the AR-15/M-16. The Thompson market is pretty small, and somebody has to pay for those expensive molds. These mags work flawlessly. I expect production versions of the metal conversion parts kits will do the same, as the maker runs a class act, unlike...well, you know... You'll find that it is a lot of fun to be able to more inexpensively run a full auto Thompson with complete reliability, as long as you have good quality cartridges that all fire. Federal has worked for me. Teach the squirrels and woodchucks who's boss. So I'd say, when this kit is offered, don't be afraid to try one. And I'll bet that if you should have any kind of problem, this guy will actually communicate with you and get it fixed, rather than stiff arm you and try to tell you it was your fault. The Blackdog AR-15 mags have really caught on, because they are inexpensively priced and they work, as does the company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron_brock Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 I'm glad to hear it's back on again. Last I had heard it was off due to lack of manufacturer. I heard about this conversion while back and it sounds like it will be one top notch kit. He also mentioned the dedicated mags to replace the ones mde by Merle. I hope it makes it to production. - Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilOhio Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 ...a little more detail on what to expect with the new .22 conversion kit. In the meantime, I wouldn't want anybody to put down deposit money on "something else" represented as being available when it really isn't, and which would be of inferior quality and higher cost even if it were honestly available. Gutterratt, this new .22 conversion, like the "other" one, uses a .22LR barrel insert that simply slips into the .45 bore from behind, when your bolt is removed from the receiver. Then a knurled and threaded muzzle nut is turned on by hand, to retain it; quick and easy. High quality steel is permanently attached to the bottom of the new conversion bolt, both for weight and to give long lasting engagement surfaces to points contacting the sear and the trip. There are no floating steel weights in the sides of the aluminum bolt body. And yes, unlike that "other" kit, this one will be select fire that actually works. You won't be stuck with a full auto only kit, which might also booger the pot metal trip-tripping shoulder on the aluminum bolt the first time you try to shoot it on semi. Put simply, these are quality parts made to last. They were designed that way. So the square part of the bolt is aluminum alloy, the round head is steel, and the bottom of the bolt is steel. The new kit will function reliably on a wider range of ammo types. No more manufacturer's lecture on how you must run it on only the one type of ammo he decrees or else all bets are off. Works fine with Federal, CCI Blazer, and some other stuff. Zero failures. There will be a last shot hold open feature. Another manufacturer already has for sale a $35 alternative muzzle nut (for the .22 LR barrel liner insert) which is threaded 1/2 x 28 for commonly available .22 suppressors. And since common .22 LR ammo of slightly reduced velocity will function with this kit, such as that from Federal, sound reduction should be pretty good. The ejector extension, protruding from the rear of the .22 barrel insert like with the "other" kit, is not likely to fall out the first time you shoot it, unlike that one. It will be firmly held, perhaps with a tiny TIG weld, so it will not shoot loose, but can still be easily replaced with help from Mr. Dremel. Availability. Wait just a short bit longer. Some details need to be worked out regarding the barrel supplier. But this is not a pie-in-the-sky project. It's coming from a good guy who runs a small family business making things that actually work and are sold at reasonable prices. Whew! Is that a revolutionary concept in the contemporary gun business or what? Has Blackdog's Kevin Rich's thought process been contaminated by Mike Dillon-type business philosophy or something? Anyway, let's give him and kit designer Merle Bitikofer an early round of congratulations. I think those of you who want to buy a kit may have it in hand by the time our midwestern weather warms up. But in the meantime, please, don't mob these guys with E-mails and phone calls about how you want one yestrerday if not sooner. Give them the space to get this show on the road as quickly as possible. They have already been deluged with queries, and being polite eats up a lot of time. I wish I had been able to buy one of these a few years ago, instead of spending at least three years, lots of time, and lots of money, to make an expensive manufacturer's abomination eventually do what one of these kits will do right out of the box. And yes, there really is a Black Dog. Oh, by the way, on a completely unrelated subject: A possibly reliable source within the rumor mill informs me that if somebody wanted to buy himself an exotic firearms accessory manufacturing business located in the general Cape Canaveral area of Florida, they might be able to pull it off. The question might be why anybody would want to; especially since the negotiating process could be expected to be the mother of all human interaction nightmares. And of course, one would want to understand all the reasons why a viable business with a wonderful reputation and loyal clientele would be for sale in the first place. But then, I suppose everybody has to retire sometime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 PhilOhio, I'm very encouraged to hear all this is coming soon! I have not purchased a conversion kit yet because I have not wanted to deal with the individual who has the only option at this point. I used to deal with that company when his former wife was the contact, and they had a better reputation and service. Thanks for posting the details of the new product. David Albert dalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knobcreeknut Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Any idea on the price? I need to know how much stuff to sell. hopefully I can get one before june so that i can finally let all the kid's I teach shoot my thompson. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilOhio Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 PhilOhio, I'm very encouraged to hear all this is coming soon! I have not purchased a conversion kit yet because I have not wanted to deal with the individual who has the only option at this point. I used to deal with that company when his former wife was the contact, and they had a better reputation and service. Thanks for posting the details of the new product. David Albert dalbert@sturmgewehr.com David, You're going to love this thing. You can feel vindicated for having waited. This one is Merle designed, tested, and endorsed. What more could anybody say? I'm coaxing him to shoot some video. I'm sorry I was an early bird with one of the "other" kits, but I have it working as well now, although it will never run on semi or hold open on the last shot. The outstanding 30-rd. mag from Blackdog is a big part of the success; on my kit, too. It is easily disassembled for cleaning or parts replacement. Larry, I can't speak for anybody else on price, but expectations so far are that it will cost less than the kit which costs more but performs less. You don't get that deal very often. I hope it shakes down that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Dudley Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Thanks for the info. I'm in--and stocking up on 22 ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knobcreeknut Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Phil, Thanks for the info. My only true concern on price is whether to sell one gun or two to get it. (unemployment sucks) I would pay more than ceiner wants just to not have to deal with him. do you know if we can get on a waiting list for the first units. as you said we don't want black dog to be answering questions all day instead of pumping out production. Since you seem to be in the loop on this, maybe you could set up something for deposits etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couchcommando Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 At least keep us updated, often, so we know what to expect and when. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 this is gonna be one of those "gotta haves". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photonance Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 I am very excited about this news! With the cost of ammo going up and up, I have started investing in .22 fun guns like the GSG-5, and it would be awesome to shoot .22s through my Savage '28. Will these kits work with or without a compensator attached? Just wondering if they will work for both '28 and M1A1 versions? Please keep us updated on availability, I would definitely like to purchase one of these kits. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrt4me Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 What happened to the video? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilOhio Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Knobcreeknut, As far as I know, there probably is not a waiting list, nor a way of putting down deposits. Let me emphasize that I'm only posting info on this in hopes of helping all of you avoid a mistake by being in a hurry to buy something else that you would not be as pleased to own. And a part of that is NOT instigating a flurry of time wasting phone calls and waiting list pleas and deposit offers which only gum up the works. Please just be patient. I expect to be able to keep up to date on this and will let you know when things are getting close. Guys, don't go into panic or me-first mode. And if you tuck away $500, I'm guessing you will have more than enough to cover this little gem. Everybody who wants one will get one, unless Barry the Messiah decides our Thompsons are all to be collected and stored in a nice, safe government steel smelter, to protect them from thieves. Then you won't need the conversion kits, except for paper weights. Greg, You bet, this is a "gotta have". I love my kit, most of which I had to make myself, because the one I paid $500 for didn't work. Yours will. Photononce, Your questions are getting into a little more detail than I can authoritatively handle without one of the production kits to measure; and there aren't any production kits yet. But as with the "other" kit, all you need are different muzzle (barrel liner retention) nuts for guns with and without comps. Both a short one and a long one will certainly be available. You then use the same barrel liner in both types. As for whether the kits will work in all the main types of Thompson variants, I hesitate to answer. But I will say that if there are differences such that one of these kits will not "readily" work in one type, it can be modified with little effort. One problem is the difference in chamber specs between military and commercial post-war barrels. Ciener's .22 barrel liners would not fit the tighter commercial chambers. I modified my liner, on a lathe, to fit a Numrich finned barrel. I'm not sure how the new Blackdog barrel liner will handle this issue. And as I said, not everything is settled with the separate barrel provider. Suffice it to say that if there is a problem fitting such a barrel to your gun, it will be easily solved. If you have an ex-military gun which passed through the acceptance process, the kit should drop right in. The last thing is just the same old can of worms again. In trying to fit any of these kits to a WH or current Kahr semi Thompson, all bets are off. Because their specs are so frequently and so far off. You new kit might drop right into one of these, or not. If not, it can certainly be fitted. But how much time and money could be required is anybody's guess. Just don't lose any sleep over it. Hrt4me, Don't know about the video. See what I wrote earlier. Maybe a newer and longer one is on the way, or maybe the old one was generating too many telephone and E-mail questions. That's what we need to hold down. What's that HBO show with Larry David, "Curb your Enthusiasm"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilOhio Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 (edited) I'm trying to get you guys something a little bit more substantial than "just wait a little while longer". Hope to post shortly. In the meantime, more barrel details. The part of the .22 barrel insert which fits the chamber area will be made to fit WW-II vintage milspec barrels on "real" Thompsons. The diameter will be too large for postwar WH barrels chambered with smaller commercial specification reamers. The good news is that if you have a WH barrel of correct military length but with the tight commercial chamber, Merle has the right milspec reamer. If you send the barrel to him (this means you remove the barrel), he can correctly rechamber it so your new kit will fit. Some of you in this category might want to get a heads-up start, as barrel removal could take some figuring out. There will be two different muzzle nuts available, for guns with and without standard Cutts compensator. Right now, there is no plan to make a liner for the 16" semi Kahr guns...but personally I wouldn't be surprised to see one later, as everybody gets up to speed on this project. BREAKTHROUGH, midway through this post. As of right now, a waiting list is being formed. Three are on it. It will be honored. Merle "The Drum Doctor" Bitikofer, the designer of the kit, is keeping it. No deposits are requested and none will be accepted. Your place on the list will be based upon the order in which Merle receives E-mails. Send yours TO HIM (not to Blackdog), stating who you are, your telephone number and mailing address, and how many you want, to: tsmgdrumdr@msn.com On price, there is still nothing set in concrete, but it is fairly sure that it will be less than the $500 base price of that "other" one. The main purpose Kevin at Blackdog Machine has O.K.ed the starting of this list is to give him a feel for how much manpower should be committed to moving things along. So now it's up to you guys. Motivate. Production of components has just started. The fun begins. The edit: If you already sent Merle a request to go on the list and did not include your mailing address and telephone number (as I have updated above), please send it to him now. I know, we didn't think to specifically ask that before. Sorry. Edited March 4, 2009 by PhilOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancer Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 BREAKTHROUGH, midway through this post. As of right now, a waiting list is being formed. Three are on it. It will be honored. Merle "The Drum Doctor" Bitikofer, the designer of the kit, is keeping it. No deposits are requested and none will be accepted. Your place on the list will be based upon the order in which Merle receives E-mails. Send yours TO HIM (not to Blackdog), stating who you are and how many you want, to: tsmgdrumdr@msn.com On price, there is still nothing set in concrete, but it is fairly sure that it will be less than the $500 base price of that "other" one. The main purpose Kevin at Blackdog Machine has O.K.ed the starting of this list is to give him a feel for how much manpower should be committed to moving things along. So now it's up to you guys. Motivate. Production of components has just started. The fun begins. Phil Thanks for taking to time to keep the board updated on this. I sent my e-mail and am looking forward to playing with a new toy for my Tommy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knobcreeknut Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 E- mail sent, I'm in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrt4me Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 (edited) E-mail sent to Merle, I should also be on the list now. Edited March 4, 2009 by hrt4me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merry Ploughboy Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Does anybody know if the new kit will require changing the ejector? TIA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimFromFL Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Any info on the mags and number of rounds it holds??? What about the cost of additional mags? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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