Newly Listed British Lend lease 1928 Thompson

[azboater]

David Spiwak Just Listed a Lend Lease Thompson 1928

http://www.davidspiwak.com

Item #531: WW2 Bridgeport Thompson 1928 in excellent condition with late smooth barrel and late Lyman rear sight,original paratrooper jump case, Bridgeport drum, 4 mags and a 1943 original book. The gun has very light pinprick pitting in a few spots and some of the lettering is light. Matching numbers which is unusual for this model. The bore and wood are excellent. No proof marks. The finish is gray Duracote. This appears to be a lend-lease gun used by the British. The location of the sling swivel indicates British use. $21,950.

Edited May 30, 2015 by azboater

[Paladin601]

Just because the stock has the swivel on the top, why would that make it a lend lease? On Ebay there is always a stock with the swivel on the top. Also, on the fore grip, would the swivel be on the right side not the bottom?

[azboater]

To add to Paladin601's question, weren't all British Lend Lease Thompson's proof marked by the British?

[Paladin601]

also, if you look at the "pin prick pitting" on the trigger frame, I would say description writer better change the prescription of his glasses.

[765 21D]

Hi all,

 

I agree the butt could have been added at any point in this 1928A1's history, but if this 28 was a British Lend - Lease gun the front grip should have the British modification on the right or left side. (In this case the left side as it's a late 1928A1 Thompson)

 

Based on British cash and carry and Lend Lease 1928 and 1928A1 Thompson guns that I have viewed In my opinion the sling swivel modification was fitted to the right side of the front pistol grips early in 1940 and moved to the left side later in 1940/1941.

 

I have seen many Lend - Lease British used Thompson guns with no British proof marks.

 

D

[LSU Tiger]

It's basically a late M1928A1. I think "Lend Lease" is based solely on the sling swivel location. I agree that the butt stock could've been added at any time. Duracoat is in essence a DIY Cerakote, so we know nothing about who applied it or the care they took.

 

For a shooter, it'd be OK. BUT, it's not the Thompson I want.

Edited May 30, 2015 by LSU Tiger

[mnshooter]

Duracoat, like most paint type coatings, can be built up to hide pits.

Not saying this was done here, but regardless,

if this is how it looks after refinishing, I'd hate to see the before.

 

One more example why anyone new to Thompsons needs this board before purchasing.

[shadycon]

Question: If you could get at a lower price because of condition, would it be worthwhile to replace trigger housing and refinish to shooter grade? That is if the reciever and barrel are not pitted like the trigger housing. GK

[LSU Tiger]

Question: If you could get at a lower price because of condition, would it be worthwhile to replace trigger housing and refinish to shooter grade? That is if the reciever and barrel are not pitted like the trigger housing. GK

I think it would be. Were I to do that, I'd want to swap the smooth barrel for a finned barrel, new wood, and black oxide finish.

[shadycon]

LSU tiger; That's what I was thinking.

[MARK2112]

 

also, if you look at the "pin prick pitting" on the trigger frame, I would say description writer better change the prescription of his glasses.

yea,you aint kidding,that frame is shot.he calls this excellent condition??????? Edited May 31, 2015 by MARK2112

[laurencen]

excellent condition "for something sitting in water for the last 50 years" not sure how you could refinish this one to look good, if paint will not hide it then doubt just a light grind would, maybe its a real bad paint job?

[Paladin601]

with a Duracoat finish on the Receiver I would want to see inside, to make sure it wasn't a welded receiver. a lot of filling could of been done.

[LSU Tiger]

I took the liberty of downloading the pics and running them through PhotoShop to brighten them and crop them. The receiver is pitted too.

 

[darrylta]

After seeing the new batch of photos, I'd walk away.

Be patient, the right one will come along.

Darryl

[LSU Tiger]

After seeing the new batch of photos, I'd walk away.

Be patient, the right one will come along.

Darryl

That's my attitude as well.

[reconbob]

This is yet another example of a seller blatantly lying about the condition of a gun and should

be a lesson to all especially new guys looking for their first gun. There is no doubt that the reason there

are no real close-up photos is because the gun - perhaps all over - is pitted. Yet the seller has the

guts to describe the gun as "excellent". If we can see pitting from 3 or 4 feet after a coat of

paint what does it look like under all this?

I do not know the seller and have never met him but its interesting that he portrays himself

as a man you can trust - Boy Scout Leader, NRA, etc. and yet he's completely misrepresenting

this gun. I feel bad for anyone who may drive a distance to see this in person and instantly realize

that they've wasted their time and expense to do so. Caveat Emptor.

 

Bob

Edited June 2, 2015 by reconbob

[mgvince]

I don't know the seller. But he has a good reputation on other boards. I don't mean at all to disparage him. However; I have looked at some of the "excellent " condition Thompsons he has had for sale, and asked for more photos.

 

Each time the photos showed much pitting. And other condition issues. They have been what I would call shooter condition.

 

So always ask for more and detailed photos. And post them here.

 

I know I was probably "that guy" to some members. But, with the money you have to put up for a nice gun now, get all the opinions you can.

 

Also spend a lot of time doing searches on this forum. The information here is astounding.

[buzz]

NRA ANTIQUE FIREARM CONDITIONS STANDARDS:

• FACTORY NEW: All original parts; 100% original finish; in perfect condition in every respect, inside and out.
  
• EXCELLENT: All original parts; over 80% original finish; sharp lettering, numerals and design on metal and wood; unmarred wood; fine bore.
  
• FINE: All original parts; over 30% original finish; sharp lettering, numerals and design on metal and wood; minor marks in wood; good bore.
  
• VERY GOOD: All original parts; none to 30% original finish; original metal surfaces smooth with all edges sharp; clear lettering, numerals and design on metal; wood slightly scratched or bruised; bore disregarded for collectors firearms.
  
• GOOD: Some minor replacement parts; metal smoothly rusted or lightly pitted in places, cleaned or re-blued; principal letters, numerals and design on metal legible; wood refinished, scratched bruised or minor cracks repaired; in good working order.
  
• FAIR: Some major parts replaced; minor replacement parts may be required; metal rusted, may be lightly pitted all over, vigorously cleaned or re-blued; rounded edges of metal and wood; principal lettering, numerals and design on metal partly obliterated; wood scratched, bruised, cracked or repaired where broken; in fair working order or can be easily repaired and placed in working order.
  
• POOR: Major and minor parts replaced; major replacement parts required and extensive restoration needed; metal deeply pitted; principal lettering, numerals and design obliterated, wood badly scratched, bruised, cracked or broken; mechanically inoperative; generally undesirable as a collector's firearm.
  

[buzz]

To call a gun with a paint job and pitting "excellent" is dishonest.

 

Small murky photos of a gun are always a bad sign

 

Any snapshot camera will take a 2 meg picture nowadays

[arch stanton]

Not trying to jack the thread. Bob I have done business on a few occasions with David and he has been nothing but honorable. He also has a good reputation as an SOT.

 

Joe

[reconbob]

That's why I made clear I don't know him and have never dealt with him. I don't have

a dog in the fight. He may be a great guy but he blew it and he's given himself a black

eye with his description of this gun.

If he describes the gun (courtesy of Buzz) as "NRA Fair condition, receiver and trigger frame

pitted. However, gun is in excellent mechanical condition and a good shooter" then I don't think

anyone would have a problem....but he didn't.

Also, if he accurately describes the gun it's not a $20,000+ gun.

 

Bob

[davidspiwak]

I am the seller of the gun and I take issue with anyone accusing me of "blatenly lying" or "misrepresenting" a gun. NRA conditions are the guideline I use, but many guns do not easily fit into a category. Pitting on a gun will lower the condition, but new finish plus an excellent bore and wood can compensate. Due to the size of my website, my descriptions are brief and I only post three photos of each gun. More are available by request. Nothing is hidden in my photos and defects are noted in my descriptions. I do the Duracote finish and you can see that no fillers were used. Any pits or dents are part of the gun's history and are left as is. My website also says that all guns are guaranteed. Every buyer has the opportunity to examine his gun when it gets to his dealer. He can take it apart and shoot it. If he does not like it, I even pay the return shipping. I sold 245 machineguns to satisfied buyers last year and most of them are repeat customers.

 

As for the sling swivel location indicating British use, my assumption is based not on the swivel itself, but on the arsenal-installed wood lozenge that fills the original swivel inlet in the buttstock. Anyone can move a swivel, but I believe only the British had the original location filled in this way.

[Paladin601]

David,

 

The presence of a lend lease butt stock on a Thompson, does not make the entire gun a lend lease, since the butt stock is detachable, correct?

 

As for the pitting, I for one think that it is curious that the trigger frame is pitted more then the receiver. You might include a better trigger frame in with the deal, to enhance it's selling ability.

 

BTW, I have no problem with Duracoat, the way thing are going, bluing and parking will be against the law soon enough.

Edited June 5, 2015 by Paladin601

[Gio]

David,

 

Thanks for coming on this board and trying to explain yourself on this Thompson.

 

You list this Thompson as in excellent condition. I don't care what guidelines you use this Thompson can't in good faith be listed as excellent. It would be a stretch to describe it as in good condition. But you could make a point for good condition.

 

Not doubting you are a fair or reputable business person but you screwed up in this case.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Frank