Troubleshooting Issues With New AO Semi-Auto Thompsons

[minerran]

Hello everyone,

 

I am new to the forum and after browsing thru the topics and FAQ, I was unable to find a troubleshooting topic. If it's there and I missed it, feel free (moderator) to move this new topic and please email me accordingly.

 

I just purchased a new Auto Ordnance Thompson 1927A-1 Commando T1-C from an online vendor and had trouble at the range. I was only able to fire a few rounds before giving up and I'd like to ask these questions of the experts here.....

 

First, I read a warning in the AO manual about squib loads. Is that considered a problem for Thompsons...ie. is it more likely to occur for them, than other firearms?

 

Second, I immediately experienced repeated FTF's (Failure to Feed) with my unmodified (I cleaned it and camo-painted the black furniture, nothing more) T1-C, using the factory supplied 30 round stick Mag and using Sellier & Bellot FMJ 230gr brass ammo as recommended by my FFL shop's gunsmith.

 

The following sequence occurred three times in a row before I gave up:

 

1. With the bolt forward, I inserted the fully loaded stick mag into the rifle.

2. pulled back on the bolt and let it go, to chamber the first round.

3. Pulled the trigger and shot one or two rounds before the FTF occurred.

Found a round that had partially entered into the chamber but I could see about a quarter inch of the case sticking out with the bolt butt up against it.

4. I put the gun on the floor and waited 30 seconds just to be safe, lest I be dealing with a dreaded hang fire event.

5. I pulled back the bolt enough to get access to the round and with my other hand, fished the round out using my fingers and set it aside. Then I released the bolt.

 

I then tried again, beginning with step 1. Repeated three times and each time, I was only able to get off one or two rounds before another FTF event.

 

 

Any ideas on what might be wrong? Am I mishandling the rifle? (operator error?) If possible, I prefer to fix this myself rather than have the expense and hassle of shipping it back to AO. I am disappointed but not surprised as I purchased this gun knowing full well that AO's quality record is less than stellar. I will roll with it because I am hooked like the rest of you here.

 

On a side note, I was shocked at the lack of recoil. Not surprising given the heavy weight of this gun - I have no idea how the troops in WW2 managed to carry this thing all day long. The recoil felt like 22 long rifle! About the same as my little henry survival rifle has.

 

Thanks in advance for the help and I look forward to finding a way to contribute to the knowledge base here. If any of you live in South Florida, please send me an email and lets go shooting some fine day!!!

 

Regards,

 

Randall Miner (minerran@bellsouth.net)

Edited September 8, 2012 by minerran

[WW2Collector39-45]

First welcome to the Board!

Did the fireing pin strike the primer on the rounds that you had to dig out of the chamber? If so it could be a couple different things. The fireing pin may be damaged, or possibly not pertruding enough to fully strike the primer hard enough on some of the rounds. Or a much more likely problem is the ammo. I use Blazer FMJ personally or Winchester, but there are a lot of different manufacturers if it were me, I would go try different brands of ammo and see if that clears it up. I am sure there are plenty of other opinions on this out there, but this is just my .02 cents

Good Luck!

[minerran]

Thanks for the welcome and for your ideas! I do appreciate your time!

 

Fortunately, the firing pin never struck the primer because it would have blown up in my face since the round was not fully inside the chamber. I examined them with a magnifier and there is no firing pin indentation at all on the round. When I pulled the trigger a couple seconds after firing the round before the FTF, I didn't hear any sound at all (eg. like a dry fire). I took the hang-fire precaution just to be safe but I was sure that it was not a hang-fire event. I will get some Blazer and try that, good suggestion. Do any of you find that the "feed ramp" needs to be polished? I had a similar FTF problem with my Kel-tec PF9 which was resolved by polishing. The Thompson appears to not have a specialized "feed ramp" attached to the barrel as my PF9 and Browning HP pistols do, but instead uses the receiver itself for this purpose. Its not shiny or polished, just blued.

 

Thanks for your thoughts. I will try some different ammo and I also now have another 30 and two 20 round mags to try out. I had to do some dremel work on those, to make them insert-able.

 

regards,

 

Randall

Edited September 8, 2012 by minerran

[jim c 351]

Randall,

Do the failures occur when feeding from both sides of the mag or only from the left side???

If you have a friend with a drum , give that a try. Then report in.

Put a finger in the feed ramp and feel for burrs or rough spots also.

Jim C

[minerran]

Hi Jim, thanks for replying.

 

If I load all 30 rounds into the mag, the last one loaded ends up on the left side if looking at the mag from the rear (rail end). Since the FTF occurred on the second round (first was manually chambered by me when I pulled then released the bolt), the second round would have come from the RIGHT side. The caveat to what I just told you is that I am not 100% sure that I put 30 rounds in - I think that I did, but it might have been 29 or 28. Is there a feed issue from the left side?

 

The feed ramp area does not appear to have any obvious rough spots, but then again its not ice smooth like I am used to with my other guns. Perhaps I will polish it, unless one of the experts here tells me that I shouldn't.

 

Randall

Edited September 8, 2012 by minerran

[Enforcer]

Randall, that's a very interesting cammo job, looks like something out of WW II. Usually problems with feeding are caused by the magazine. With you Commando you'll want a few extra mags anyway. I would try another mag with your ammo, if that does not work better, try different ammo, Herters brass cased 45 ACP, Federal 45 ACP, or Winchester white box are all good ammo. Of course stick with 230 gr Round Nose FMJ.

 

Of course you may want to field strip and lubricate your rifle, I find that a good quality gun grease is necessary for the bolt. If your rifle is new, it may need a break in period of a couple of boxes of ammo to smooth things out.

 

My 1927A1 will run flawlessly with factory ammo but it does not like steel cased Wolf ammo, handloads, or remanufactured ammo. I just returned from the 2012 Zoot Shooter World championships in Colorado and the must have been 30 ro 40 semi auto thompsons that all ran fine. Everyone I saw used factory ammo, but I did not see any S&B 45 ACP. Another thing is to download your mags try 5, 10, 20, and 25 in your 30 round mag. Sometimes round count and spring tension makes a difference.

 

The Thompson is no more prone to "squib loads" than any other firearm. Squib loads are an ammo problem that is due to an insufficient powder charge in the cartridge case. Hope this helps!

[jim c 351]

Randall,

I once had a problem with a Bridgeport 28A1. Rounds feeding from the left side of the mag would occasionally hang up like yours did.

Unfortunately I can no longer remember the make of the brass. I shoot reloads exclusively. The extractor would hook onto the rim as the round was being pushed foreward but would not straighten up as it went up the ramp. This never happened with a drum.

In my case I had several bolts, so I checked all of them. With the bolt out of the gun , I would place a cartridge rim under the extractor an attempt to straighten it. The bolt that straighten the easiest was the one I put back in the gun. The problem went away.

I also filed a burr on the extractor slot in receiver.

If this is the case with your gun you may have to polish the bolt face rather than the feed ramp.

Jim C

PS. Do not depend on round count. When you have a failure, stop, pull mag, and look at top round...

Edited September 8, 2012 by jim c 351

[minerran]

thanks Enforcer!

 

Great suggestions! Helps a lot! I will field strip and lubricate then try again with a downloaded mag. I only have clenzoil which is oil, not grease. I'll have to get some then.

What work did you do on yours before competing in Zoot?

 

The paint job was an attempt to match the WW 2 marine corps Pacific camouflage as you pointed out. I already have two "evil" black rifles (AK103 and AR-15) so I didn't want to suffer the boredom of yet another black one which is how the T1-C comes. I am not completely happy with my paint job and might redo it as the color "blotches" are too small and the colors themselves were not quite right. I am also planning to buy some walnut furniture for it as well. Then I can change it into a "gangster" gun when so inclined!

 

Thanks for the info on the squib loads, not sure why it was mentioned in the instruction manual but its good to keep it in mind anyway.

Edited September 8, 2012 by minerran

[minerran]

Randall, I once had a problem with a Bridgeport 28A1. Rounds feeding from the left side of the mag would occasionally hang up like yours did. Unfortunately I can no longer remember the make of the brass. I shoot reloads exclusively. The extractor would hook onto the rim as the round was being pushed foreward but would not straighten up as it went up the ramp. This never happened with a drum. In my case I had several bolts, so I checked all of them. With the bolt out of the gun , I would place a cartridge rim under the extractor an attempt to straighten it. The bolt that straighten the easiest was the one I put back in the gun. The problem went away. I also filed a burr on the extractor slot in receiver. If this is the case with your gun you may have to polish the bolt face rather than the feed ramp. Jim C PS. Do not depend on round count. When you have a failure, stop, pull mag, and look at top round...

 

 

Thanks Jim, understood!

[Joe H]

Randall,

 

It may be helpful to try other ammo but I use Sellier & Bellot FMJ 230gr all the time with no problems.

 

First thing I would try would be loading the mag with only about 5 rounds. Then work your way up. IMO 30 rounds in the 30 round mag is looking for a jam, particulary on a new gun that may need some fine tuning as has already been mentioned. From what I've heard the GI's in WW II never loaded more than 28.

 

Joe

[minerran]

Thanks Joe, that is very helpful to know that you have good success with S & B. I will follow your recommendation next trip to the range!

[Enforcer]

Randall, I just shoot my 1927A1 in practice before I go to a match. I do make sure the chamber is clean and the gun is well lubricated before a match. I did not mean to infer S&B is in any way inferior, I just did not see anyone using it, and I did not see everyone's ammo. Some guns have ammo likes and dislikes, my M1927A1 will not function with steel cased Wolf ammo, but my TM1 eats it all day long, I have no real explanation for this. I do believe my 1927A1 may have a tight chamber which is why handloads and remanufactured ammo don't work well in it.

[deerslayer]

A possible jam that does occur and has not been mentioned here is that the firing pin is not being held back by the sear when the bolt goes forward. Thus is sticks way out beyond the end of the bolt feed lips and will cause a jam when the round attempts to chamber. If you test fire again and get the jam, very carefully retract the bolt and try to notice if the firing pin is forward already. This may also be noticable if you pull out the magazine with the gun still jammed and look at the slot in the bolt where you can see the firing pin.

 

If you are getting this jam, you will have to fit a new firing pin as its already been cut to shallow to keep ahold of the sear reliably.

[olle grieze]

Hi Enforcer, did you get in time to see your son at the airport? Had a great match was a lot of fun.

 

BTW, I will never use S&B ammo again after have one go off on my feeding ramp.After that experience i checked the rounds left in the box and found out that I could move the bullets by hand in the shells.......... I also checked some S$B 223, the same thing....

 

Dutch aka Olle Grieze

[Enforcer]

Hi Enforcer, did you get in time to see your son at the airport? Had a great match was a lot of fun.

 

BTW, I will never use S&B ammo again after have one go off on my feeding ramp.After that experience i checked the rounds left in the box and found out that I could move the bullets by hand in the shells.......... I also checked some S$B 223, the same thing....

 

Dutch aka Olle Grieze

 

 

Hi Dutch!

 

Yes I did, we actually had a quick meal at the Airport before he left. BTW my email is kbmakel@aol.com Keep in touch!

[T-Bone]

Check for sharp edges/burrs on the magazine feed lips.

[DeaconKC]

On my TM 1 I took the springs out when I got it , put some valve lapping compound on the bearing surfaces and then ran the bolt back and forth about 500 times. It was absolutely smooth when I got done. After cleaning it up, I used Mil Tec grease on the rails. Also, try some other magazines. Mine runs fine with S&B and Winchester White Box ammo.