My father in WWII, with his Thompson

[Dolphinvet]

My dad in WWII in February 1945, Schmidt Germany. A pity I don't have that particular Thompson. He's with his outfit. Sorry for the poor resolution of this photo, it's very old.

 

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j331/Dolphinvet/ww2.jpg

[jim c 351]

Looks like a carbine collectors club meeting.

Nice photo. I think I have your fathers M1.

Jim C

[Dolphinvet]

They were the wire crew for a field artillery unit. They carried carbines. My dad got the Thompson from the battlefield. He was issued a carbine, but had the Thompson, and also a BAR, all battlefield pickups.

[Z3BigDaddy]

Sweet pic!

[ordmm]

Great picture! Thanks for posting. Don't know if you've ever read it but one of the "Green Books" entitling "Three Battles, Arnaville, Altuzzo, and Schmidt" covers the individual battles in detail in perspective of small unit actions. For a time, and maybe still, the book was used as a textbook by the military. Excellent history.

[Dolphinvet]

Great picture! Thanks for posting. Don't know if you've ever read it but one of the "Green Books" entitling "Three Battles, Arnaville, Altuzzo, and Schmidt" covers the individual battles in detail in perspective of small unit actions. For a time, and maybe still, the book was used as a textbook by the military. Excellent history.

I'd never heard about that book, would be interesting to get a copy of it. It was from the Battle of the Bulge that my dad was awarded the Bronze Star. He never would speak much about that battle, except to say it was really cold.

[joseph12297]

Hi JB

 

Thanks for sharing the great pic and family history!!!

[ordmm]

Here's one source......http://www.history.army.mil/html/books/011/11-7-1/

 

Great picture! Thanks for posting. Don't know if you've ever read it but one of the "Green Books" entitling "Three Battles, Arnaville, Altuzzo, and Schmidt" covers the individual battles in detail in perspective of small unit actions. For a time, and maybe still, the book was used as a textbook by the military. Excellent history.

I'd never heard about that book, would be interesting to get a copy of it. It was from the Battle of the Bulge that my dad was awarded the Bronze Star. He never would speak much about that battle, except to say it was really cold.

[Kilroy]

Great picture. My grandfather was a Marine combat photographer (both ground and air) and he has a couple thousand pictures from the war, most are stateside training programs. I've been scanning them, it takes forever.

[Dolphinvet]

 

Here's one source......http://www.history.army.mil/html/books/011/11-7-1/

 

Great picture! Thanks for posting. Don't know if you've ever read it but one of the "Green Books" entitling "Three Battles, Arnaville, Altuzzo, and Schmidt" covers the individual battles in detail in perspective of small unit actions. For a time, and maybe still, the book was used as a textbook by the military. Excellent history.

I'd never heard about that book, would be interesting to get a copy of it. It was from the Battle of the Bulge that my dad was awarded the Bronze Star. He never would speak much about that battle, except to say it was really cold.

Thanks for the link. I downloaded it. Now to read about it. My dad wouldn't talk about it. Typical from what I'm told about GI's of the day.

[Gunslinger]

Nice picture! It sounds like your dad had the beginnings of a great collection. He certainly had good taste in firearms. I wonder whether those were all M1 Carbines or if there were some M2's in the group as well.

[Bruce L]

Dolphinvet,

 

Do you know what FA Batallion he was assigned to?

[jim c 351]

Nice picture! It sounds like your dad had the beginnings of a great collection. He certainly had good taste in firearms. I wonder whether those were all M1 Carbines or if there were some M2's in the group as well.

Gunslinger,

I remember reading ,I think on the internet, (so it must be true) that some US Army divisions had their carbines updated, prior to entering Germany.

This included adjustable rear sights, bayonet attachment, and M2 kits. Since none of the carbines in the picture had bayonet attachment, I doubt if they would have had M2 kits installed.

Jim C

[Dolphinvet]

I know his carbine was semi-auto. I have a copy of his discharge papers, will have to dig them up, then I can post what battalion he was in. I have probably a couple hundred pictures here, most are of scenes that he photographed during the war, and some are of prisoners that he took. I will scan and post as I have time.

[Bruce L]

My Dad was a forward observer assigned to the 385th FA Battalion, 104th Infantry Timberwolf Division. The photos I have of Dad and his carbine show it was the early style M1. He says most of them were really upset when their Garands were replaced with carbines.

[Embalmer]

My great uncle was in an ordinance support company in wwii, and said he lost count of all the m1 rifles and carbine that soldiers modified to full auto in the pacific.

[RoscoeTurner]

Schmidt is a beautiful village, lots of interesting WWII sites in that area if you ever get the opportunity to visit. I spent two days there in 2007 and enjoyed it very much.

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

G

 

Gunslinger,

I remember reading ,I think on the internet, (so it must be true) that some US Army divisions had their carbines updated, prior to entering Germany.

This included adjustable rear sights, bayonet attachment, and M2 kits. Since none of the carbines in the picture had bayonet attachment, I doubt if they would have had M2 kits installed.

Jim C

 

One of the few sightings of an M1 Carbine with type III band during WWII. The pic of a jarhead and B-29 crash landing off Iwo Jima is from March(?) , 1945. Don't know of any 1944 pics from ETO or PTO showing M1's with type III bands/sights. Any earlier sighting would really confound re-enactors.

 

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b56/Polythemus/MArine1945M1CarbinewithTypeIIIBand_zpsf892beb7.jpg

 

Okinawa, May, 1945. M1 with type III band.

 

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b56/Polythemus/OkinawaMay13toMay16th1945_zps10d38ede.jpg

[jim c 351]

Arthur,

I'm not sure when my father retuned from the Philippines for discharge, but one of the thing he brought back was a "PAL" M4 carbine bayonet. I still have it. He never mentioned anything about an automatic carbine.

I have located the info that I remembered to make the post above and I remembered wrong. This info appeared on "JOUSTER" in August 2009.

 

"Folks, here is a bit of info found in a book "A History of the 83rd Infantry Division 1942 - 1945." A section concerning the 783 Ordnance Co. states that 2500 carbines were modified to fire automatically and all the carbines in the division were modified with the new adjustable rear sights previous to crossing the ROER River. This crossing was made on 2/23/45." Posted by USMC63. I don't know if USMC63 is on this site.

 

But in any case it was the adjustable rear sight I should have remembered not the bayonet attachment. In my defense I will point out that the bayonet attachment was adapted before the M2 kit. Perhaps the 83rd div. considered automatic fire more important than a bayonet.

Jim C

 

PS. for those interested in the M2 carbine use in WW11 , here's a ditty from the 104th Div. involved in the same Roer river crossing. This is from the book "Terrible Terry Allen" , by Gerald Astor. Chapter--Over the Roer-- Page 295. Quote by Sgt.Bill McIlvane, A Co.,413 infantry. Pertaining to patrolling the far side of the Roer.

"We decided to travel as light as possible. For weapons we had three automatic carbines and a Thompson Sub."

Jim C

Edited September 11, 2013 by jim c 351

[MG08]

Interesting discussion - my Dad (long deceased now) was in the Phillipines in the Navy and carried a Carbine - No mention of them being Select fire or FA, only time he really ever talked about it was after I brought an UZI home When I was an officer in the Navy ( This is another story) and after firing it he commented on the fire rate and control with respect to shooting Japanese in ambushes. As an oh by the way - He like the garand, but felt the carbine provided more fire power. He did manage to bring a couple carbines home as they apparently fell into a duffle bag .......

Sadly traded off before I was involved .

[Bruce L]

I spoke with my Dad this evening on the issue and he does not recall seeing an M2 carbine in the ETO. He did point out that as a forward observer, he traveled in small groups of 5 or less.

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

The in the field "T17" conversion parts kit for the M1 wasn't available until November, 1944 at the earliest. Inland and Winchester didn't complete the change over to M2 production and shipment until April and May, 1945 respectively. These would have the type III barrel bands to accept a bayonet.

 

It makes sense that the 83rd ID were equipped with "2500 carbines modified to fire automatically" as U.S. Army units would only have access to converted M1 Carbines in the ETO by February, 1945. Production M2 Carbines were not available in quantities to supply ETO soldiers before the war ended

 

The earliest recorded serial number of a stamped M2 Carbine has a barrel date of 11-44.

 

Apparently, by June 1945, these initial factory produced M2 Carbines were reported to have reliability problems,

[gonzo25mm]

Awsome picture! Mine is my Dad "mugging" for the camera. They were the best Generation of our time!