Some Thompsons at Rock Island Museum

[whiskey6eod]

Just a pict of some nice Thompsons.

 

If you ever come by RIA - look me up.

 

Check out some neat M2 Carbines on the Carbine thread too.

[Kocapuff1]

I wonder why none of them have the reddish stain on the military stocks? Anyone?

[giantpanda4]

Interesting adjustable sight on an M1 or M1A1.

[jim c 351]

Mike ,

Nice work. I didn't notice it without your help. Conventional wisdom is that a adjustable Lyman can't be put on an M1A1 because it would overlap the receiver and look terrible.

At the 2008 Indiana Subgun match a shooter had such a combo and I thought it looked OK.

Jim C

[buzz]

why would the stocks be red?

 

It's said that there is some gun oil or varnish from the old days that would oxidize to a reddish color over a long period of time

 

but I have not encountered it yet

 

all the red stocks I've seen were due to gun owners putting red stain on their stocks

 

American walnut isn't naturally red colored, it ranges from a warm amber brown to a greenish brown

Edited April 30, 2015 by buzz

[06AngusSG]

I don't know why they get red but I know they can be. The foregrip and buttstock I bought out of England are both Savage made original finish and red. The rear grip however was bought out of Poland is "M" marked (that maker escapes me right now) and was very Walnut brown. I had to come up with a custom stain combo to get it to match the other two pieces.

[Kocapuff1]

why would the stocks be red?

 

It's said that there is some gun oil or varnish from the old days that would oxidize to a reddish color over a long period of time

 

but I have not encountered it yet

 

all the red stocks I've seen were due to gun owners putting red stain on their stocks

 

American walnut isn't naturally red colored, it ranges from a warm amber brown to a greenish brown

I thought that most of the GI stocks had the reddish hue Stain on them? the replica military dye, such as Vanderhaves Formula XIII is what some people use to get the proper color. Most of the GI stocks I have found that were original have the reddish hue stain.

 

Can anyone else elaborate about this topic please for more input?

[LSU Tiger]

In my experience, U.S. GI stocks range from almost true brown with some red to a strong red-brown. Why there's such a difference, I don't know. I've used Fairtrimmer's Military OX stain with good results on M-1 rifles.

[Ron Mills]

Back to our storyline, the RIA Museum is a real treasure where you can spend hours in just the room with the Thompsons! I've been there many times and it's always fascinating. Once while I was there they were changing a few guns in the display which indicated to me that they have much more behind the wall.

[whiskey6eod]

Agree Ron - plus, each weapon has a data card which is available for you to examine in a large bound book in front of the display - tells the details on the piece. I get caught up reading the story on them and my wife has to drag me out.

[gijive]

Keith,

 

The picture was taken with a tungsten or fluorescent light source illuminating the display case. The color temperature of this light causes a yellow or greenish hue depending on tungsten light or fluorescent light. Electronic flash on cameras is white light which looks more natural but usually is not strong enough to override the existing light source if there is sufficient light to expose the picture properly. In order to expose the picture properly the white balance on electronic cameras has to be adjusted to compensate for the light source. Most cell phone cameras usually add a fill-flash to properly expose the picture properly but it isn't a sufficient amount of flash to eliminate the yellow/green hue from a stronger light source.

 

Anyway, the point is that the tungsten light source (yellow light) would give the wood a warmer brownish hue. I have posted an example of the original photo and one with the color corrected slightly in Photoshop to show the difference in color correction. I do have to agree with Buzz, however. Most American Black Walnut has a browner hue, sometimes with a reddish tone that can be exaggerated with stain and oil finish. For the most part, from my observations, the WWII military Thompson wood tends to be more brown in color. I think a lot of collectors just stain them red, because they think that is the way it is supposed to look, as Buzz pointed out. Corrected color is on the left, original photo on the right.

[Ron Mills]

 

Agree Ron - plus, each weapon has a data card which is available for you to examine in a large bound book in front of the display - tells the details on the piece. I get caught up reading the story on them and my wife has to drag me out.

[Ron Mills]

Forgot about those cards! I too spent mucho time reading those. Great info.

[gunhistorian]

Number 5857 -- the M1 or M1A1 with the smooth barrel, Cutts comp, and vertical foregrip -- must have an interesting story! Gotta get out there and read the card! LOL

[Ron Mills]

My guess is that 5857 was an arsenal rebuild there. Parts on hand that day...

[Bridgeport28A1]

http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/TW56/image_5.jpghttp://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g374/TW56/image_6.jpg

 

 

Top picture are handwritten notes from Museum Curator from an inquiry of mine quite a few years ago.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Bridgeport28A1

[Merry Ploughboy]

If M1A1 No. RIA 5857 is transferrable, even though the are some nonconforming parts, I will pay the indicated value for it.

[Barry]

I guess I'm missing it I only see one m1a1

[Barry]

5857 looks like a 28 model missing a bolt

[bug]

Look at the area just above the grip frame. Compare it to 5852. The M1 receiver slims down in this area and creates what looks like a ledge there.

 

Bob D

[Bridgeport28A1]

I have hard copies and notes from the curator on the RIA museum Thompson's and Reisings. I will post the either photos or scans of the Historical Property Catalog "cards" hopefully within a couple of weeks in the thread.

[Barry]

oh I see now m1 receiver cut for drum with adjustable sight

[reconbob]

Regarding the red color of stocks - I have seen many Thompson stocks. I currently have here at

the shop absolutely beautiful sporting-rifle-quality M1928A1 stocks in original box and wrapper dated

"4-59". The surface of these stocks is very smooth and they have an oiled finish. However, they do not

appear to be stained and are brown, not reddish-brown. I have M1 stocks of similar quality although

not in original boxes.

At the other end of the spectrum I have M1 stocks MINT-in-wrapper. The wrapper is a green wax

paper type wrapper. Some of them have a label that says "Sioux Ordnance Depot" and part #D35524

and the description "Gun Stock". These stocks are real stinkers. The surface is rough sanded only

and the stocks have never been oiled and have a very light pale color. The crossbolts are covered with

cosmoline, but even so some of them have managed to rust. If you sand them smooth and put linseed

oil on them they are not too bad, but still brown, not reddish brown.

A lot of the color depends on the wood itself. I have some MINT-in-wrapper forends from 1957 and

some of them tend to be a little on the reddish brown side but its certainly not decisive.

I know what people mean about the red color because I have seen it on a lot of buttstocks with

the Russian kits. Probably back in the day whatever production line was making stocks had a standard

stain/oil dip that they used, because you have to oil the wood, you can't leave it raw.

I mentioned this before - back in the good old days when I was working at Sarco one day my luck ran

out (I was a gunsmith and usually did not have to do warehouse duty) and we had to go to one of the

warehouses which was a barn. At the time Sarco had every part to assemble M1903 and M1903A3

Springfields - mostly MINT-in-grease parts including barrels and sights! The owner contracted with a

local gun guy to assemble the rifles. The guy would come pick up the necessary parts, and a couple

of weeks later bring back the finished/assembled rifles which he transported in the trunk of his car

stacked between blankets.

Anyway - one of the items we retrieved from the barn was a couple of crates of brand new MINT

condition semi pistol grip M1903/A3 stocks. These were original arsenal crates. When you pried the

lid off the crate, there was a sheet of thin tar paper as a protective seal - you had to slice it open to

get to the stocks. Here is the point of all this - the stocks had been dipped in a reddish stain that

had the consistency of linseed oil because there were hardened drops and run-marks where the

mixture had dried. The stocks had been dipped, probably hung to dry, but then stacked in the

crates without wiping off the excess. The color of these stocks was reddish brown - like a red

mahogany -they were beautiful stocks. But it was the stain more than the wood.

 

Bob

Edited May 4, 2015 by reconbob

[gunhistorian]

Interesting card for 5857! Thanks Bridgeport! Makes me wonder if this was not a donation to the museum in order to avoid seizure as contraband. . .or donated by a police department. The marking being ground off, including the s/n (wonder if an s/n appears on the frame), and the '28 style parts suggests a home-built gun. If the accession date is correct -- 1984 -- it is further evidence of a "donated" firearm rather than some experimental piece or an arsenal build.

[Bridgeport28A1]

Date of acquisition is 1958