Frank Iannamico Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 https://www.atf.gov/file/100896/download Scroll down to page 4... End of CLEO signatures ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 Pinch, pinch, is it really true or just a dream :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph12297 Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 Interested to see if it looks like this in the final version. What would this mean for states like NC where I live and the AHJ's would not sign off ever. States can pass legislation to ban outright, or can they not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Henley Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 Would certainly be nice if all that was necessary was to notify the local CLEO like you have to do when you apply for a FFL C&R license. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 WowCan't find a working link this morning, must have been swamped. What I caught posted on another board, is copied further below. Making an assumption what I copied is actually what the ruling reads and was not edited. See portions I highlighted in Red If I read and understand this correctly it completely eliminates CLEO for an individual, thus Trusts are no longer necessary for those in areas where the CLEO refused to sign. Now I could argue and I would not be surprised if someone challenged the one sentence highlighted in Blue. Would notifying a local CLEO violate the tax confidentiality? Probably is my assumption. So if I am reading correctly and it does implement as I read and understand, my assumptions are:BATFE will get swamped starting July 2016, Class III prices for machine guns probably will go up as it becomes easier for certain individuals to acquire their desired Title II items that they held off because they did not want to go the Trust route. "Hence, obtaining CLEO certification is no longer a hurdle for individuals, trusts, or legal entities acquiring an NF A firearm, and therefore the problems identified by the commenters with respect to the CLEO certification process are no longer a factor threatening the economic health of NFA manufacturers, dealers, and related businesses." - Page 174 "This final rule eliminates the current requirement that all individual applicants obtain a certification from the CLEO for the locality. Instead, under the final rule, applicants seeking to make or receive an NFA firearm are required to notify their local CLEO before they submit the ATF application to make or receive an NF A firearm. Similarly, the final rule does not adopt a requirement that responsible persons obtain a CLEO certification, as was discussed in the proposed rule; instead, the final rule extends the same notification requirement to all responsible persons for each trust and legal entity applicant." - Page 212 "Under current regulations, individuals must obtain a certification from a CLEO in their jurisdiction stating, inter alia, that the certifying official has no information indicating that possession of the firearm by the individual would be in violation of State or local law, or no information that the individual will use the firearm for other than lawful purposes. Some applicants have found the process of obtaining a CLEO certification burdensome. Additionally, local and State officials have the option of participating or not, and some CLEOs have refused to issue certifications, thereby making it more difficult for applicants and transferees to obtain the needed certification. Requiring only notice, rather than a certification, will benefit applicants and transferees by removing a potentially burdensome impediment to furnishing ATF with a completed application." - Page 228 SUMMARY: The Department of Justice is amending the regulations of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) regarding the making or transferring of a firearm under the National Firearms Act (NF A). This final rule defines the term "responsible person," as used in reference to a trust, partnership, association, company, or corporation; requires responsible persons of such trusts or legal entities to complete a specified form and to submit photographs and fingerprints when the trust or legal entity files an application to make an NFA firearm or is listed as the transferee on an application to transfer an NF A firearm; requires that a copy of all applications to make or transfer a firearm, and the specified form for responsible persons, as applicable, be forwarded to the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) of the locality in which the applicant/transferee or responsible person is located; and eliminates the requirement for a certification signed by the CLEO. These provisions provide a public safety benefit as they ensure that responsible persons undergo background checks. In addition, this final rule adds anew section to ATF's regulations to address the possession and transfer of firearms registered to a decedent. The new section clarifies that the executor, administrator, personal representative, or other person authorized under State law to dispose of property in an estate may possess a firearm registered to a decedent during the term of probate without such possession being treated as a ''transfer" under the NF A. It also specifies that the transfer of the firearm to any beneficiary of the estate may be made on a tax-exempt basis.--This final rule was signed by the Attorney General on January 4, 2016. It is effective 180 days after date of publication in the Federal Register. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoscoeTurner Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 As announced on the NFATCA Facebook page - "The NFATCA, along with the NRA and the American Suppressor Association, and our attorneys, Stephen Halbrook and John Frazer, are pleased to announce that the Department of Justice and ATF have removed CLEO signatures from NFA transfer requests. Although all potential possessors now require identification and background checks, the CLEO signature requirement has now been eliminated and revised to a notification process. Details will be forthcoming. Please see the AG Order." http://www.nfatca.org/pubs/ag_order_3608-2016.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bug Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 https://www.atf.gov/file/100896/download Scroll down to page 4... End of CLEO signatures ?Burning some midnight oil, eh? Looks like a good thing for us but only time will tell... Bob D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim c 351 Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 Its comforting to finally see something wonderful coming out of the Federal government , while controlled by Obama. I guess Obama's respect for the second amendment and his love of machine guns is finally showing.Personally, I get nervous anytime the Fed is doing us a favor, as long as Obama pulls the strings and the puppets dance.Jim C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DZelenka Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 Not good for those who use trusts, especially with trustees living in multiple jurisdictions. There are advantages to owning NFA items in a trust not related to CLEO signoff. This is especially true if you have family members to which you may want to loan things. It also isn't good for us lawyers who draft trusts. LOL Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsonlmg41 Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 As for tax confidentiality they claim on one of the pages that you would need to submit notification to CLEO before your form is approved, thus you have not yet gotten the stamp and have no confidentiality at that point. Rather funny but it makes sense. No problem with other members of trusts, but they will need to be listed, fingerprinted and photographed along with the form for the item in order to be able to possess it which is spelled out in the rule change. If they reside in a prohibited state a trust does not solve that, but the background check on them as trustees will weed out the bad apples and thus not put anyone in violation. Trustees can be in different places of residence as well as members of other entities. This is nothing really new. I have an entity in another state and sometimes work out of that all along here. As you read it, and I only did 106 pages so far, they go into a lot of detail in answering the questions raised in the open comment period. If you're a trust lawyer......well some of you guys brought all this upon yourselves.....good riddance I say. At the end you all got lucky and I would not have been able to easily deal on another HK sear this morning, so I'm not complaining about what I've read so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunslinger Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 These changes to ATF requirements are great but Wisconsin state law still requires CLEO sign off for MG's. Sigh..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bug Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 These changes to ATF requirements are great but Wisconsin state law still requires CLEO sign off for MG's. Sigh.....That would be correct. Just curious though, are there any other states that require CLEO cert through state law? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 (edited) In regards to the NFA trust, even though I went through my background check when I first created the trust, will I'll need to do that again on some new forms? I know my Trustees who haven't done the background check will have to jump through the hoops, I just wonder if I'll need to do that also. Will anything change for purchasing new firearms with the trust. Edited January 10, 2016 by Sgt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lone Ranger Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 A background check conducted in connection with forming an entity has no bearing on the NFA process. You will go through the same process as non-legal entity applicants have been subject to - photos and FPCs. The forms *should* be revised before July so if you are not familiar with it, hopefully the instructions will cover it. You can get a head start by reading the current version - that will get you most of the way except for the yet to be printed 5320.23 for responsible persons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy Posted January 18, 2016 Report Share Posted January 18, 2016 http://blog.silencershop.com/atf-41f-published-today/?trk_msg=A9I65OI28PU4JFC379G058V7I8&trk_contact=SQK5S99803C3CM7RO4CM8Q1AUC&utm_source=Listrak&utm_medium=Email&utm_term=http%3a%2f%2fblog.silencershop.com%2fatf-41f-published-today%2f&utm_campaign=Silencer+Shop+News Don't know how accurate these points are, but some of it I like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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