Hugo Schmeisser’s Bergmann Sub-machine Guns: M.P.18,I to M.P.18,IV & the SIG Bergmann M.P.

[HANS]

My article on Hugo Schmeisser’s early submachine guns, that is the Bergmann M.P.18,I through M.P.18,IV and the SIG-Bergmann M.P., has now been published as the latest issue of ARMAX is shipping.

In this, I’m tracing the curious designation of the original pattern, the M.P.18,I, and follow the evolution of the design, debunking a number of other theories trying to explain it. I’m also tracking the production through serial numbers and try to establish that there were probably a few more of the weapons manufactured than is often claimed.

 

Cheers

 

HANS

[Rekraps]

Hans, for the record I own a M.P.18,I SN: 35217

This unit is a factory mod stick magazine gun, that my research shows was modded in 1932. 

[HANS]

Thanks Rekraps!

 

Cheers

 

HANS

[johnsonlmg41]

Interesting.  I have a couple. Any hard info as the concept they started with a stick magazine?  Or that the snail drum was originally designed for the MP18, and never the luger?  Since drum overall production coincides with 5 per gun and one P-Kasten per gun?  The use in the luger was just propaganda to hide the invention/use of the MP18 during the war when the MP18 seems to have been developed well before 1918?

Is this the part where I have to shell out another $20 for the article? 🙂

[Rekraps]

On 9/16/2023 at 6:12 AM, HANS said:

Thanks Rekraps!

 

Cheers

 

HANS

I'm sure your research pulled this up, but what i discovered is that the Versailles treaty limited Germany to very few submachine guns, however we now know that they in fact kept quite a few more (beyond the 1920 stamped police guns) and over the next decade or more, modified many of them to accept the 20 round stick magazines. I dated mine using the late SN and the fact that the firing pin has a 1932 date stamp along with the gun SN.... And, it makes sense. 

[HANS]

3 hours ago, johnsonlmg41 said:

Interesting.  I have a couple. Any hard info as the concept they started with a stick magazine?  Or that the snail drum was originally designed for the MP18, and never the luger?  Since drum overall production coincides with 5 per gun and one P-Kasten per gun?  The use in the luger was just propaganda to hide the invention/use of the MP18 during the war when the MP18 seems to have been developed well before 1918?

Is this the part where I have to shell out another $20 for the article? 🙂

'fraid so  

Indeed, one of the questions I address is the theory that the weapon was originally intended for a box rather than the drum. I think I make a reasoned and well-supported argument (and obviously the editors agreed) that no, it wasn't, but truthfully we still don't know for certain -- very, very few original documents from that timeframe have survived the two wars ...

 

Cheers

 

HANS

[HANS]

2 hours ago, Rekraps said:

I'm sure your research pulled this up, but what i discovered is that the Versailles treaty limited Germany to very few submachine guns, however we now know that they in fact kept quite a few more (beyond the 1920 stamped police guns) and over the next decade or more, modified many of them to accept the 20 round stick magazines. I dated mine using the late SN and the fact that the firing pin has a 1932 date stamp along with the gun SN.... And, it makes sense. 

All the box magazine conversions date to 1930 or later, since Haenel did not start making them until October 1930. Even if we didn't know this, the serial numbers alone prove it, since we find box conversions throughout the range.

The interesting thing I discuss is that the M.P.18,III (and probably also the M.P.18,II and definitely the M.P.18,IV, and probably the M.P. Schmeisser I, the forerunner of the M.P.28,II) all have a box magazine, but a different one than the converted M.P.18,I, one that uses a double feed. I discuss its origins and likely timeframe in the article.

 

Cheers

 

HANS

Edited September 17, 2023 by HANS

[Rekraps]

19 hours ago, HANS said:

All the box magazine conversions date to 1930 or later, since Haenel did not start making them until October 1930. Even if we didn't know this, the serial numbers alone prove it, since we find box conversions throughout the range.

The interesting thing I discuss is that the M.P.18,III (and probably also the M.P.18,II and definitely the M.P.18,IV, and probably the M.P. Schmeisser I, the forerunner of the M.P.28,II) all have a box magazine, but a different one than the converted M.P.18,I, one that uses a double feed. I discuss its origins and likely timeframe in the article.

 

Cheers

 

HANS

Excellent, I have the fortune to own 10 of the original 20 round box magazines, one with a matching SN to the gun!