Winchester .45 ammunition boxes

[rpbcps]

I was digging through some transit chests the other day, and came across some Winchester .45 ammo boxes, (reproductions), marked "42-Cartridges".

Considering the XX mags needed 20 rnds and the L drum 50 rnds; does anyone have any idea why they would pack the .45 ammo in boxes with 42 rnds?

[Got Uzi]

I’ll bet it has to do with the size of the shipping crate being used. Perhaps the crates were to be repurposed on the other end and it was done for this reason. 
 

I would say that it’s so two GI’s could load out for their 1911’s but since it’s “SubGun only” that goes out the window. 

[rpbcps]

I thought the same thing initially, for 1911's, but notice the " for use in smgs".

[Taliaferro]

I think you are both right. The ammo was intended for the 1911, but also could be used in submachine guns. 

 

First, the British found out there was a difference between US made and British made 9mm ammo. The British ammo being

hotter. This caused problems in the S&W Model 1940s when the British tested them with their ammo.

 

Secondly, when the US started making steel cased ammo the rounds would work fine in the 1911 and can

work in the Thompson (but can sometimes damage the lower lip of the bolt). With the M3 I am not sure Got Uzi or Frank

are the expert on that firearm.

 

But the marking "For Sub-Machine gun" was meant to mean it is OK to use in the SMG and pistols.

 

Tracie

[rpbcps]

3 hours ago, Taliaferro said:

I think you are both right. The ammo was intended for the 1911, but also could be used in submachine guns. 

 

First, the British found out there was a difference between US made and British made 9mm ammo. The British ammo being

hotter. This caused problems in the S&W Model 1940s when the British tested them with their ammo.

 

Secondly, when the US started making steel cased ammo the rounds would work fine in the 1911 and can

work in the Thompson (but can sometimes damage the lower lip of the bolt). With the M3 I am not sure Got Uzi or Frank

are the expert on that firearm.

 

But the marking "For Sub-Machine gun" was meant to mean it is OK to use in the SMG and pistols.

 

Tracie

Tracie,

Thanks for that confirmation/explanation , it all makes sense now.

Happy days

Richard

[Got Uzi]

There is documentation by the British that stated brass case ammunition was to be held in reserve for units predominately having Thompson’s. If units predominantly had M3/M3A1 guns then they were to get the steel case.
 

It’s nearly impossible to damage a bolt face on an M3/M3A1. The sear locking point however is a different story….

[Ivan]

The good old "UNITED STATES OF AMERICAN " ?

Nice repro boxes, original typo ?

 

[rpbcps]

6 hours ago, Ivan said:

The good old "UNITED STATES OF AMERICAN " ?

Nice repro boxes, original typo ?

 

Well spotted, I wondered who would see that first. 🫣 That is the difference between 'seeing' and 'observing'.

[shadycon]

Maybe the way they are packed; 7x6=42. Box is almost square for shipping box.

[rpbcps]

5 hours ago, shadycon said:

Maybe the way they are packed; 7x6=42. Box is almost square for shipping box.

Yes, perhaps we are over thinking things again. 🙄

[ppgcowboy]

Metric system conversion. 

[2ndArmored]

The typo may have been deliberate to preclude the box being offered as original.  Likewise some Thompson canvas items are marked with fake company names.  Doug engraved his parts with a big "R".  Being the very last letter on the box, the extra letter isn't obvious, but serves its purpose.

Here's a real one:

The differences are obvious (fonts, spacing, etc.) IF you have the two to compare.  But by itself, the repro box (sans typo) could be passed off at original. Again, much like all the repro canvas items out there.

[2ndArmored]

To GotUzi's geometry point, a lot of countries were boxing their ammo in square(ish) containers.  Motivated more by packing efficiency than an easily-divisible number for a specific weapon.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 15, 2023 by 2ndArmored
added photo

[First Sergeant]

Interesting on the 42 rounds. The Russian repack ammo I have in  oblong spam cans are repacked into 42 round flimsy paper boxes.  When I opened one of the cans I was confused by that number as well.  

[TSMGguy]

10 hours ago, First Sergeant said:

Interesting on the 42 rounds. The Russian repack ammo I have in  oblong spam cans are repacked into 42 round flimsy paper boxes.  When I opened one of the cans I was confused by that number as well.  

Right, the Russian repack was from the original boxes to Russian made 42 rd. boxes, then into spam cans. Apparently, the W-W, WRA and RA head stamped ammo was originally packed in wooden crates by the manufacturers.

About the best surplus ammo purchase I ever made was the Russian repacked .45 ball ammo in spam cans. These were $60 delivered from Paragon Sales. Remember them? The can I shot up was sure fire and very clean. Headstamps were mixed, as above. 

[rpbcps]

19 hours ago, TSMGguy said:

Right, the Russian repack was from the original boxes to Russian made 42 rd. boxes, then into spam cans. Apparently, the W-W, WRA and RA head stamped ammo was originally packed in wooden crates by the manufacturers.

About the best surplus ammo purchase I ever made was the Russian repacked .45 ball ammo in spam cans. These were $60 delivered from Paragon Sales. Remember them? The can I shot up was sure fire and very clean. Headstamps were mixed, as above. 

So the story about the lend lease Thompsons given to the Soviets not being used, due to the lack of .45 ammo was a fallacy?

[TSMGguy]

On 10/20/2023 at 3:39 AM, rpbcps said:

So the story about the lend lease Thompsons given to the Soviets not being used, due to the lack of .45 ammo was a fallacy?

Therre was a fascinating thread on these boards that had copies of original lend-lease paperwork with listings and totals of almost everything supplied to the Soviet Union. It's not coming up in a search. There were many millions of .45 ball ammo cartridges mentioned out of the 5.5 billion eventually produced.  

[rpbcps]

2 hours ago, TSMGguy said:

There was a fascinating thread on these boards that had copies of original lend-lease paperwork with listings and totals of almost everything supplied to the Soviet Union. It's not coming up in a search. There were many millions of .45 ball ammo cartridges mentioned out of the 5.5 billion eventually produced.  

I'd be interested to read that paperwork myself.