ac556k Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Does having the US markings add significantly to the value of a WWII M1A1 Thompson? Also how to tell if a gun I am ready to buy has been refinished and whether the wood is original? Thanks Dean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philasteen Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 I wouldn't pay a premium for the markings, many WWII guns produced for the US didn't have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevengunner Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Dean, The "U.S. Property" markings are positioned differently for the Savage and AO/Bridgeport guns. They are a nifty reminder of the guns' GI provenance, which certain collectors will always pay a premium for. However, the folks that know the history and base their interests on it know that the "U.S. Property" markings were applied mostly to guns intended for lend-lease [to other countries], and that the M1A1s issues to the U.S. troops were largely devoid of them. So, my answer to your question is that there are some who would pay more for a "U.S. Property" marked gun. However, to others it would not make any difference in the value. Sven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoscoeTurner Posted October 26, 2013 Report Share Posted October 26, 2013 Bringing up an old topic. What official documentation or reference do we have that the Thompson's issued to US troops did not have the US Property marking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 2003 thread dealing with this issue. It appears the "US PROPERTY" stamp is no guarantee that the TSMG saw action and/or was earmarked for Lend Lease. Not sure why the addition of this mark justifies inflating the price beyond the marketplace value for any comparable M1A1 sans this stamp. Have not noticed a premium for TSMGs marked "TOMMY GUN" considering the reason for that mark is definite. Here's my spinI got an M1A1 marked US Property. No Brit proof marks.I got an M1 Garand not marked US Prop, but has Brit proofs.I got a Remington Rand 1911A1 marked US Property. Not British proof marked.I have no idea. I have a Savage built M1A1 that was carried by a US troop in the pacific theatre during WW2 (specifically mid 1943). The serial number is in the 522xxx range. It is NOT marked with the "US Property" stampings. It has the "FJA and GEG" US acceptance stamps and has never been to an arsonal for rebuild.I think this is all original as it has been in the veteran's safe for 60 years (hopefully in about 3 months will be in mine!!). If you need photos for comparison let me know...although mine is different than every one i have ever seenIt is my understanding that the property stamp was for exported weapons (makes sense?)...though mine, as stated above, is unique...so i think pretty much anything is possible! http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1029&hl=%2Bthompson+%2Bproperty&do=findComment&comment=7815 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMGguy Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 As to question the second, Parkerizing (if present) is a sure sign that a TSMG has been refinished. WWII guns left the factory blued. The park job may have been done under the auspices of a depot rebuild program, or later by someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoscoeTurner Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 The reason for my question is that on two other boards over the past few days this story that only those without the markings were issued to US troops has come up and I was curious where this bogus story got its start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gijive Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 The reason for my question is that on two other boards over the past few days this story that only those without the markings were issued to US troops has come up and I was curious where this bogus story got its start.Roscoe, Someone made it up and passed it along at a gun show.............where else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoscoeTurner Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Arthur, Thanks for the link and information. RT 2003 thread dealing with this issue. It appears the "US PROPERTY" stamp is no guarantee that the TSMG saw action and/or was earmarked for Lend Lease. Not sure why the addition of this mark justifies inflating the price beyond the marketplace value for any comparable M1A1 sans this stamp. Have not noticed a premium for TSMGs marked "TOMMY GUN" considering the reason for that mark is definite. Here's my spinI got an M1A1 marked US Property. No Brit proof marks.I got an M1 Garand not marked US Prop, but has Brit proofs.I got a Remington Rand 1911A1 marked US Property. Not British proof marked.I have no idea. > I have a Savage built M1A1 that was carried by a US troop in the pacific theatre during WW2 (specifically mid 1943). The serial number is in the 522xxx range. It is NOT marked with the "US Property" stampings. It has the "FJA and GEG" US acceptance stamps and has never been to an arsonal for rebuild.I think this is all original as it has been in the veteran's safe for 60 years (hopefully in about 3 months will be in mine!!). If you need photos for comparison let me know...although mine is different than every one i have ever seenIt is my understanding that the property stamp was for exported weapons (makes sense?)...though mine, as stated above, is unique...so i think pretty much anything is possible! http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1029&hl=%2Bthompson+%2Bproperty&do=findComment&comment=7815 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoscoeTurner Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 That sounds about par for the course these days. When I asked the question about all the US Property marked 1911s to those who made the remark about Thompsons my question was answered with stupefied silence. The reason for my question is that on two other boards over the past few days this story that only those without the markings were issued to US troops has come up and I was curious where this bogus story got its start.Roscoe, Someone made it up and passed it along at a gun show.............where else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgeport28A1 Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Roscoe, the reasoning on why some are marked US PROPERTY may be "buried" in the Thompson contract specifics? WW1 1911 and WW2 1911A1's are US PROPERTY marked, Pre-war…WW2 and Post-War US Cal 30 M1 rifles and World War 2 US 30 Cal Carbines are not US PROPERTY marked. Neither were M50 and M55 Reising SMG's. The M1 rifles and carbines were only US Government manufactured so no real reason to mark them US PROPERTY. The Thompsons and Reisings SMG's were also sold commercially. Maybe the ordnance inspector acceptance markings on the Thompsons were thought of as being sufficient to establish US PROPERTY. As was mentioned by others, Lend Lease M1 rifles did not have an additional US PROPERTY marking added when they were sent to Great Britain as Lend Lease aid. I wouldn't pay much of a premium for a US PROPERTY marked M1 or M1A1 Thompson, but if two Thompsons were equal in all other facets I would choose the US PROPERTY marked one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoscoeTurner Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Thanks, the original thread had to do with a premium, I didn't mean to cause confusion when I posted in this old thread. My question was about the story that only those unmarked Thompsons being issued to US troops which I think is bogus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy Posted November 3, 2013 Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 What about acceptance stamps and crossed cannons or flaming bombs? Does that have any determination whether it was US issued? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmagee1917 Posted November 4, 2013 Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 Yes , but the final acceptance mark varried over time and type of gun . But it was the stamp which showed acceptance by the US govt . and that payment to the mfg. was now due. On some runs , it was the inspectors stamp ( on wood or metal ) , some a bomb on metal , some a crossed cannon , some just a pin punch mark on the reciever.Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy Posted November 6, 2013 Report Share Posted November 6, 2013 Thanks Chris for the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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