kanister Posted August 14, 2015 Report Share Posted August 14, 2015 I have a question concerning the M3 9mm conversion.Here in Italy many M3 were delivered to partisans, especially on the Langhe area (South Piedmont) and the central Liguria. These deliveries took place on the February/April 1945 on SOE controlled areas. (Here a SOE member with his M3) The question is that withnesses tell that these guns were not .45 born and then converted with the conversion kit but were produced in 9mm.Also the markings on the receiver told 9mm and were different from the common SMG. Was the M3 ever build in 9mm on wartime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmagee1917 Posted August 14, 2015 Report Share Posted August 14, 2015 As far as I know , no M3 or M3A1 was ever produced in 9MM . They were all conversions . I would love to see a picture of a 9MM marked reciever as well as pictures of the mag well and magazine . As you know , the conversions used an adaptor and Sten mags . I would guess that one made from the factory 9MM M3 would have a mag well that would take a Sten mag without the need for an adaptor .Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim c 351 Posted August 14, 2015 Report Share Posted August 14, 2015 Chris,Go to page 32 in Frank I's book "THE US M3-#A1" as see a picture that you will love to see. A one of a kind.Jim C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanister Posted August 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 Chris,Go to page 32 in Frank I's book "THE US M3-#A1" as see a picture that you will love to see. A one of a kind.Jim CTank you for your reply.I know the book and the photo at page 32, it's a prototype, so I think few units produced, but here in Italy we got many thousand; all prototypes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanister Posted August 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 Here some photo of a M3 that was found many years ago in a mountain hut: can you tell if it is a conversion from kit or a new production? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim c 351 Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 Unfortunately you posted pics of every part of the gun except where the caliber and serial number is stamped. Didn't even show a good pic of the mag.We are not into guessing.Jim, C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanister Posted August 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 Sorry, but these are the only pics I own. Even if I speak only a little, very little, English if I had a picture of the marking I would solve the question by myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Hi, Just a guess from what I can see in the photographs, the middle picture in the first row looks like the magazine does not have a magwell adapter. This would lead me to think the gun is made as a 9mm M3. I've only experience with the reproduction conversion kits. These kits have a folded metal "adapter" to make a Sten magazine fit the M3. Thoughts from others? Grasshopper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim c 351 Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 GH,What makes you think the pictured gun is 9 m/m in the first place.Looks like a 45 to me.Jim C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanister Posted August 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 All the witnesses with whom I spoke told that the M3 they got from the Allied containers were only on 9mm, but they did not know if were original or conversion ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Uzi Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Sadly the pictures lack any information that would help your cause. Did the conversion mag well adapters extend below the bottom of the mag well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmagee1917 Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Jim , thanks for the proto-type reminder , forgot about that one .Got Uzi , the WW2 adaptor had a lip that flared out around the bottom that prevented the adaptor from going in too far.I do not see any adaptor in the above picture photo , but it may not run all the way around the front . The photo needs to show another 1/4 to 1/2 inch more of the rear of the well .Page 121 of the above book shows an original adaptor installed ,But , as was said , we have no indication if this is a .rare 9mm or a standard .45 . Without that , the lack of an adaptor is moot.Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Iannamico Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Dennis Todd had one for sale at the first SAR East show it was marked 9mm on the magazine housing, however as I recall it had a 9mm magazine adapter in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanister Posted August 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Thank you for your reply.If I understand what you say the conversion kit and the marking 9mm were factory applied. It's right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Uzi Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Not to my understand. If it was field added there is no way to stamp the gun in the field unless they did a hack job of it. It would be very clear VERY fast if you tried to insert a 45 magazine into a gun with a magazine adapter. It would not fit lending one to deduce that this is a clue that it might be in 9mm. It would only require a field stripping to change it from one caliber to the other (I'm speaking out of turn if the magazine adapter requires special attention) but the bolt and barrel would be a quick swap. Like stated above-trying to figure out the M3 in the picture is almost impossible as the few areas that could answer the questions are conveniently missing or out of frame. A picture of the muzzle of the barrel, a shot of the entire mag well, or the ID markings would be enough to answer this guns past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Given the complexity of making a set of stamping dies I bet any prototype for 9mm would be the same receiver halfs as the standard 45 version but with a spacing bar spot welded into the magazine housing. So they probably would look identical but the interior of the magazine well and the calber stamping would be the only diffeences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanister Posted August 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I have no more pictures of the M3 that was found in a mountain hut, so I cannot post them. But I have many pictures of M3 on the hands of the Italian partisans: perhaps you can see if they can tell us something: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Uzi Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I will admit that a few of those could be in 9mm as the magazines look more "boxed" than a regular 45 acp magazine. Out of curiosity what happened to the one that was found? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanister Posted August 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Out of curiosity what happened to the one that was found? Destroied: here in Italy we can't have an active SMG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Uzi Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I was afraid that was going to be your answer. I PM'd you a couple questions on another matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Iannamico Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Thank you for your reply.If I understand what you say the conversion kit and the marking 9mm were factory applied. It's right?Yes it had a .45 magwell with a 9mm adapter in it, but the gun was factory marked 9mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanister Posted August 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Thank you again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmagee1917 Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Well then , if we are talking about a run of M3 / M3A1s that were standard .45 recievers but shipped out with the 9mm conversion installed and no .45 barrel assmly / bolt / mags with them , then I could see that happening . If it was known before hand those were going to be dropped behind enemy lines in 9MM with no supply of .45 in sight , they would save time / material in their production . This particular run could have been hush-hush ( remember the Liberator " flare pistol " ? ) and not stamped with the regular markings and , as most / all were airdropped and lost , we might not have found paperwork or not realized the meaning behind the paperwork when found .Then again , it just might be the people dropping the guns just installed the kits into the guns being dropped and put the spare parts into their parts stock or just tossed them away.Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanister Posted July 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 I known that this is an old thread, but a new/old M3 surfaced on a old barn and has these marking in it: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Uzi Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 What markings? No picture is showing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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