2008 Louisville N.r.a. - T.a.t.a. Display

[dalbert]

All,

 

I arrived back home Sunday night from attending the 2008 National Rifle Association Annual Meetings in Louisville. What a great weekend! Many members of The American Thompson Association arrived Wednesday afternoon to begin assembling a unique display that people will be talking about for many years to come.

 

With the support of the Berrien County, Michigan Sheriff's Department, particularly Lt. Mike Kline, both Colt Thompsons that were used in the St. Valentine's Day Massacre on February 14, 1929 were on display to the public at the NRA Exhibit area in the Expo Center.

 

The Thompsons were presented in a very respectful manner, centered around a CSI theme demonstrating the work of Dr. Calvin Goddard. Dr. Goddard had been involved previously in the Sacco and Vanzetti case of the late 1920's, and following the St. Valentine's Day Massacre, he was asked to put together a crime lab at Northwestern University in Chicago to enable forensic investigation of the case. As a result of the murders, and the subsequent investigation, Dr. Goddard pioneered many forensic techniques used by law enforcement ever since, including acid etching to reveal a ground off serial number on Thompson #7580, as well as rifling, cartridge case, and primer marking forensics.

 

Colt Thompsons serial number 2347 (Model of 1921A), and serial number 7580 (Model of 1921AC), which were recovered from a Berrien County hideout of "Killer" Fred Burke in December 1929 were featured on display. Also included were many artifacts, including one of 3 bullet proof vests recovered from Burke's hideout with the Thompsons, two bricks from the wall of the building where the murders occurred, an original full box of ammo from the same lot as used in the killings, various drums and magazines from the hideout, as well as several Goddard artifacts appeared on display with the Thompsons.

 

The American Thompson Association was also fortunate to have obtained the support of the Newark, Ohio Police Department, who lent out their ballistic comparison microscope, which was on interactive display to the public. The microscope demonstrated some freshly spent cartridge casings from Colt Thompson #7580, showing the markings left by the weapon as its own, distinctive fingerprint. The casings could be compared to sample photos from the period report produced by Goddard, showing the same markings.

 

The two Thompsons on display were undoubtedly the best documented firearms in the entire exhibit hall. Their provenance was apparent, as they could be spotted in several period photographs on display, and their descriptions and accounting as having been used in the murders was spelled out in the report Goddard prepared as a result of his investigation.

 

As a result of the incredible display, and the provenance of the Colt Thompsons, each Thompson was awarded a silver medal by the NRA, and the T.A.T.A. Goddard-CSI-SVDM display won the Best Display perpetual silver cup for 2008. This was the first time that all 11 NRA judges unanimously chose one display to receive the top honor. The display was also awarded a certificate of recognition for the accoutrements on display from Dr. Goddard.

 

The effort could not have been possible without the efforts of several individuals. First of all, Mike Kline, who is the caretaker of the Thompsons in Berrien County, Michigan, and the sheriff of Berrien County, L. Paul Bailey, who gave his support. Then there's Tracie Hill, President of The American Thompson Association, who put together the incredible display, and coordinated the club's involvement. Many tireless hours were spent by Tracie to make the display possible, and his experience with previously designed firearms displays proved invaluable. Also critical was Chuck Schauer ("gijive" on this board), whose display at Tracie's show 2 years ago inspired this one, and who initiated the involvement of Berrien County, without whom the SVDM Thompsons would never have been possible to display. Many other TATA members helped construct, and manned the display while providing historical tutelage to those who viewed it on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.

 

A lot of fun was had by all who participated from the club, and I know countless people were amazed and grateful to have had the opportunity to see such historical firearms presented in such a manner. I feel very fortunate to have been involved, and am grateful to the many folks aforementioned, and to the NRA for the forum.

 

Here are some pictures I took of the display, and the awards presentation.

 

The overall display - the Thompsons and artifacts are under plexiglass covers to the left and right of the ballistic comparison microscope.

 

http://www.sturmgewehr.com/dalbert/Thompson_Pictures/NRA%202008/Goddard%20Display.JPG

 

SVDM Colt Thompson #2347 - This weapon was used to fire an L-drum during the massacre, and was also ballistically matched to the previous murder of Frankie Yale in New York.

 

http://www.sturmgewehr.com/dalbert/Thompson_Pictures/NRA%202008/No%202347.JPG

 

SVDM Colt Thompson #7580 - This weapon was used to fire an XX magazine during the massacre, and all serial number markings had been ground off the weapon at the direction of its gangster owner.

 

http://www.sturmgewehr.com/dalbert/Thompson_Pictures/NRA%202008/No%207580.JPG

 

This closeup of #7580 shows the effect of the acid on the receiver, and how it was able to regenerate the previously obliterated model number and serial number. This was a technique Dr. Calvin Goddard pioneered.

 

http://www.sturmgewehr.com/dalbert/Thompson_Pictures/NRA%202008/No%207580%20Acid-Web.JPG

 

A proud group of Thompson aficionados are presented with the perpetual Silver Cup for the Best Display among the collectors displays at the annual NRA Convention.

 

http://www.sturmgewehr.com/dalbert/Thompson_Pictures/NRA%202008/SilverCupPres.JPG

 

If you were able to attend, you probably saw the display, and hopefully it made an impression. If not, maybe these pictures and this narrative may provide a glimpse into the effort.

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

 

 

[gijive]

Dave,

 

Thanks for the excellent write up of the display and great pictures! Your contributions to the effort in obtaining many artifacts from 1920's historian and author, William J. Helmer, were responsible for making the display an even greater success.

[dalbert]

gjive,

 

Thanks for your note. I can't believe I forgot to mention Helmer in the credits, both for some of the artifacts, and for use of his research and writing in the brochure that accompanied the display. His expertise on the subject of the SVDM is unquestionable, as is yours.

 

It was a late night last night when I wrote that, after a very long day at work...

 

Thanks!

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

[PhilOhio]

David,

 

Thanks so much for that wonderful report, from those of us unable to have been there. It's quite impressive to see that the exhibit received such unanimous honors from the judges at the NRA show. If only that can be translated into changes in NRA policy vis a vis addressing the 1986 registration ban end run.

 

Congratulations to you, Chuck, Tracie, Bill, the Berrien County people, and everybody who had anything to with this certifiably outstanding display. It encourages those who would "keep the history alive", as Ron K. says.

 

Am I correct in thinking that this is the first time the SVD guns have been so prominently displayed at a major public showing outside the Berrien County Sheriff's Department headquarters, since the infamous massacre itself? I don't recall seeing them at the NRA Headquarters display a few years ago.

[gijive]

Phil,

 

Thanks for the nice compliments. Yes, you are correct, this is the first time they have been publically displayed, especially in a national venue, since they were seized in 1929. They have been displayed locally in Berrien County over the years and at Tracie Hill's show two years ago, but this is the largest exposure they have received so far.

[PhilOhio]

That's amazing. Again, congrats to everybody involved. Seems to me that a story of the "life" and travels of these two Thompsons, from SVD to the exhibit 79 years later, would make a nice article for the Rifleman. And considering the unanimously favorable opinion of the show judges, editorial staff people at the NRA might go along with it. Maybe some of you folks have the contacts...

 

And there would be available pictures of the guns' permanent display location in Michigan; good PR for the department.

 

...test firing again at the TATA meet; good PR for this legitimate collector activity.

 

...and some of the pics used at this recent display, including the forensics photos.

 

I'm thinking there would be no shortage of good color pics from which to choose a Rifleman cover photo.

 

Good PR all around.

[artie in miami]

I have a question about the "acid etching" technique used to raise the ground-off serial numbers. While reading "American Legend", I read that when the Boat was captured in New jersey trying to smuggle thompsons to the irish...Thompson's son volunteered to help in the investigation. Many of the serial numbers had been removed, but Thompson showed that there was a serial number hidden on the receiver under the forearm mount bracket. Is this true of all model 1921/1928 tommies...wouldn't that make the acid test not necessary ?? It is probably easier to do the acid than to try to remove the bracket..even back then before corrosion set in.

 

artie in miami

[Phil Askew]

Great pics David, had a great time once again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TD.]

If you were not there representing The American Thompson Association and the Berrien County Sheriff's Department or simply enjoying the convention, you missed out on a great handout about Dr. Calvin Goddard, the St. Valentine's Day Massacre and two of the most famous Thompson Submachine Gun's in the world. Of course, keep a check on ebay because one of these is sure to appear someday!

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v669/Auto-Ordnance/NRACon2.jpg

Edited May 22, 2008 by TD.

[dalbert]

I have a question about the "acid etching" technique used to raise the ground-off serial numbers. While reading "American Legend", I read that when the Boat was captured in New jersey trying to smuggle thompsons to the irish...Thompson's son volunteered to help in the investigation. Many of the serial numbers had been removed, but Thompson showed that there was a serial number hidden on the receiver under the forearm mount bracket. Is this true of all model 1921/1928 tommies...wouldn't that make the acid test not necessary ?? It is probably easier to do the acid than to try to remove the bracket..even back then before corrosion set in.

 

artie in miami

 

artie in miami,

 

You are correct about the additional serial number on the grip mount. I believe when Marcellus Thompson traveled to Chicago in 1926 that the additional serial number location became generally known. Colt Thompson #7580 used in the SVDM also had that hidden serial number ground off. Hence, the acid etching was used by Goddard to reveal it, and enable investigation of the source of the weapon.

 

Phil Askew,

 

It was definitely a good time. You need to tell the story about the Alpaca farmers at the blackjack table...:-) I still laugh when I think about that...

 

I also have to say that besides the success with the Goddard display, seeing Ted Nugent rant to about 1000 of us on the second amendment for an hour and 20 minutes, and then launch into a "Star Spangled Banner" guitar solo on Sunday was an awesome ending to the weekend. Very highly recommended!

 

TD,

 

Yes, the handout will probably become a collectible Thompson related item in the future. I have my (one) copy set aside, and I'm sure your Ebay prediction will come true. Lot's of good info in the handout, most of it courtesy of Bill Helmer.

 

David

 

 

[artie in miami]

I have a question about the "acid etching" technique used to raise the ground-off serial numbers. While reading "American Legend", I read that when the Boat was captured in New jersey trying to smuggle thompsons to the irish...Thompson's son volunteered to help in the investigation. Many of the serial numbers had been removed, but Thompson showed that there was a serial number hidden on the receiver under the forearm mount bracket. Is this true of all model 1921/1928 tommies...wouldn't that make the acid test not necessary ?? It is probably easier to do the acid than to try to remove the bracket..even back then before corrosion set in.

 

artie in miami

 

artie in miami,

 

You are correct about the additional serial number on the grip mount. I believe when Marcellus Thompson traveled to Chicago in 1926 that the additional serial number location became generally known. Colt Thompson #7580 used in the SVDM also had that hidden serial number ground off. Hence, the acid etching was used by Goddard to reveal it, and enable investigation of the source of the weapon.

 

Phil Askew,

 

It was definitely a good time. You need to tell the story about the Alpaca farmers at the blackjack table...:-) I still laugh when I think about that...

 

I also have to say that besides the success with the Goddard display, seeing Ted Nugent rant to about 1000 of us on the second amendment for an hour and 20 minutes, and then launch into a "Star Spangled Banner" guitar solo on Sunday was an awesome ending to the weekend. Very highly recommended!

 

TD,

 

Yes, the handout will probably become a collectible Thompson related item in the future. I have my (one) copy set aside, and I'm sure your Ebay prediction will come true. Lot's of good info in the handout, most of it courtesy of Bill Helmer.

 

David

.

 

 

Dave

Thanks for taking the time to explain that to me...the previous post's "yes, no" did not help me with my questions !! Not all of us have been into the tommies for 40 years and do have legitimate questions. I am a teacher here in Miami and have always operated on the " no question is a dumb question" rule. Thanks again.

 

artie in miami

 

[full auto 45]

I wanted to be at the NRA thing so bad, but just wasn't able to get away. I knew Nugent would be there on one of the days.

 

http://www.tednugent.com/music/images/tourPhotos/loveGranade/loveGranade13.jpg

 

 

 

 

Now that is a great picture!

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p178/z3bigdaddy/Thompson%20Stuff/choke_me_r_lee051508.jpg

 

http://www.tednugent.com/music/images/misc/NUG_RollingThunderArtwork_w.jpg

Edited May 22, 2008 by full auto 45

[Z3BigDaddy]

Not to get yelled at for hijacking the thread, I already gave a wrong answer and paid the price but are you going class III dealer on us? Mikey Class III Dealer? Edited May 22, 2008 by Z3BigDaddy

[full auto 45]

Not to get yelled at for hijacking the thread, I already gave a wrong answer and paid the price but are you going class III dealer on us? Mikey Class III Dealer?

 

Nope, just have the page to get rid of some of my old stuff and help out my buddy I work the shows with to move his stuff. Works out pretty good. If anybody here sees something they like, let me know. We can surely work on some price.

[PhilOhio]

Yesterday morning, a close friend of mine had his first chance to tell me all about the NRA show, where he had some of his Indian trade rifles and lifelike Indian mannequin on display for the Michigan Arms Collectors booth, very close to the Thompson display.

 

He said he had a lot of time to visit with a great guy from Michigan, Mike Kline, who brought the SVD guns. I said, yep, know all about it...and told him how I recently muffed the chance to shoot them by not being at our own get together.

 

Anyway, my friend said several of the ladies in Mike's office back home were recently doing a big document destruction project for the sheriff, and they came upon a good bit of material relating to the two guns. As they were aware of the significance, it didn't get burned. So having everybody in a PD office sensitized makes a difference.

 

I only mention this because I am not sure if this would be new info or old info to those of you in direct contact with Mike and his office, like Gijive and Dalbert.

 

My friend is quite a historian, loved the Thompson display, and told all about the traffic it generated and the top award it earned.

 

 

[dalbert]

PhilOhio,

 

That lifelike Indian mannequin you mentioned at the NRA Convention was absolutely amazing! I thought it was a real person in costume, and then when I began to sense it was a statue, I thought for sure any moment it was going to move and startle me. That is some great work!

 

Thanks for the info about the documents. I'm sure if Chuck doesn't already know about them, he will inquire with Mike.

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

 

 

[PhilOhio]

 

Glad you liked our Indian buddy. Everybody reacts the same way. He's the clone of a real, and currently living, Indian man in New England (a Delaware, I believe). It was done by a prominent artist there, who specializes in this sort of thing. It's the most photographed attendee of the select gun shows where he shows up. We have a lot of fun with it/him.

 

About 10 of us get together every Tuesday at my friend's home a few miles away, amid quite a collection of high dollar firearms from the 1700s to the 1900s. And the mannequin is always sitting silently in the corner chair, with that stern, inscrutable, senior warrior expression. He's the one who always shows up, never says a word, and doesn't eat the cookies.