Future Of High Capacity Magazines

[CptCurl]

Hello All,

 

We are all witnessing the mood of the nation intent on lynching gun owners because of the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre. Certainly that event invokes visceral reactions in everyone, but I'm not posting a debate of that.

 

My question is, what happens to Class 3 collectors if high capacity magazines are outlawed (which seems highly likely at this writing)?

 

I am new to guns with magazines (except for "normal" handguns). Those of you who know me are aware that I am a hard-core double rifle collector. I never even owned a semi-auto rifle until buying a collectible M1 Garand a few years back. Now I have a nice TSMG and a nice Vector Uzi, with quite a few magazines for each.

 

For the past year I have been thinking of rounding out my Class 3 pursuits with an M16A1. I guess I should have done it a year ago, cause look at what the market has done in the meantime!

 

If I buy an M16A1 will I have trouble getting magazines? Will there be a limit on the number of magazines?

 

I think we are looking at a ban at least as comprehensive as the Clinton ban. The prior ban had no effect on me whatever. Now I am vulnerable.

 

You guys who made it through the Clinton ban please speak up and describe how it affected the Class 3 collector and shooter.

 

Thanks,

Curl

[Robert Henley]

The only thing the Clinton ban did was drive up the price of high capacity magazines. There are millons of high capacity magazines in circulation, and a ban could only impact the manufacture of new ones (what happended with the Clinton ban). An interesting sidenote, school tradegies are nothing new in our history. Here's a link to the Bath School disaster in 1927 in which explosives were used to blow up an elementary school:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

 

Unfortunately, we will never be able to stop evil--at least not on this side of heaven.

[RoscoeTurner]

If any of us could predict the future on this with any certainty we would all be making more money than we currently are. Best advice I can give is to drive on just as you were before all this started and hope for the best.

 

Also choose your information sources wisely, avoid the tin foil hat sites and those that promote the prepper mentality.

[smkummer]

Its all speculation at this time what will be proposed. It can be a long time to what is passed if anything. During the ban, several had to make due. Some got caught up in the hipe and greatly over paid. Where it somewhat hurt was guns such as the Reising, as the replacement 30 round mags were going sky high towards the end of the ban. For myself, I gauge how many mags. I need to shoot a Knob Creek Subgun match, which is about 8 for each gun and then I am good.

[RoscoeTurner]

Its all speculation at this time what will be proposed. It can be a long time to what is passed if anything. During the ban, several had to make due. Some got caught up in the hipe and greatly over paid. Where it somewhat hurt was guns such as the Reising, as the replacement 30 round mags were going sky high towards the end of the ban. For myself, I gauge how many mags. I need to shoot a Knob Creek Subgun match, which is about 8 for each gun and then I am good.

 

 

I still have boxes of 30 round M16 magazines I bought before and during the previous ban I have never opened. Highly doubtful in my area even if banned local law enforcement would go looking for them. They have larger problems than that to deal with.

[james m]

http://ww2weaponsforum.com/images/icons/icon1.png

 

Below is a copy of the email I just sent to my Congressman David Schweikert. Feel free to use it or any part of it in your own correspondence.

BTW: It is brief by intent as long correspondence tends to get ignored by those in Congress:

Jim

 

 

 

Dear Congressman Schweikert:

I think we are all well aware that the leftist gun grabbers will make every attempt to capitalize on the Newtown Conn. tragedy to severely curtail or take away entirely our 2nd Amendment rights. We are also well aware that this tragedy was carried out by a mentally unbalanced individual as was the case with previous tragedies such as Columbine and Virginia Tech. This may be a good opportunity to return to the previous policy of institionalizing mentally ill people so they don't pose this kind of danger to society but that perhaps is another matter. I would ask for your support in strongly opposing any legislation that fundamentally impacts our 2nd Amendment rights.

I would also recommend you consider introducing legislation to permit properly trained teachers to be armed on school property such as has been successfully done with airline pilots to deter further incident by madman.

I also want to wish you and your family a very Merry Christmas.

Regards Jim MXXXXXX[/indent]

Edited December 21, 2012 by james m

[smkummer]

Jim, well done as you offered a solution. As of now about 6 states allow teachers to be armed and I believe its a good start. I know very very well about the armed pilot program. It too met with doubt but now is accepted. The armed pilot program had to be federal. And I too believe the armed teacher program also has to be federal to make it past the states that think its deplorable. Since this is happening because of the horrific event, this is what is known as a re-active solution. A proactive solution would be to do away with publically posted "guns not allowed" signs and revisit allowing licensed carry in more public places. I understand in Isreal, if a place has a no weapon sign, it has to provide 2 machinegun armed personal for the event.

[james m]

The facts of life in Israel:

Jim

[hawksnest]

The loonie left's solution is to propose more "reasonable gun laws". One of their past solutions was :"gun free zones". Turns out the lawbreakers dont have any regard for human life or the gun free zone law. Who would have thunk it?

[TSMGguy]

I was one of the pilots armed under the FFDO program. The effort was well thought out and the training is comprehensive.

 

There can be no better deterrent than well trained, motivated, and armed defenders who know that they are the very last layer of defense. Failure is no option at all, and would result in the loss of the defender's life as well as the lives of all of those he has sworn to protect.

 

But to the original question, I'd imagine that only the manufacture and sales of of new high capacity magazines will be banned. Again. "Pre ban" magazines will remain available. For a price. during the prior ban, I had no problem finding and purchasing full capacity magazines for my then new Walther P99.

[elkoholic]

I like the arming the teacher idea.....sort of.....

 

What happens when something happens, we then have a shooter and teacher with a gun, how are the police going to know....who's who?

 

And yes I'm a teacher in favor of the teachers packing, with training.

[RoscoeTurner]

I like the arming the teacher idea.....sort of.....

 

What happens when something happens, we then have a shooter and teacher with a gun, how are the police going to know....who's who?

 

And yes I'm a teacher in favor of the teachers packing, with training.

 

Normally the teacher is not dressed in mall ninja gear.

[Robert Henley]

But to the original question, I'd imagine that only the manufacture and sales of of new high capacity magazines will be banned. Again. "Pre ban" magazines will remain available.

 

As noted earlier, this of course was how it worked during the Clinton ban. However, I heard on the news a couple of times the past few days several discussions of confiscating any banned items, including a legal analysis of it by CNN (which the attorney analyzing it deemed it to be lawful). The hysteria has reached a point of talk of confiscating items. As the former chief of staff of the current administration famously said, "a crisis is a terrible thing to waste." A friend of mine, whose parents fled Cuba when the communists took over, said his parents related to him how the talk at the time in Cuba was it would never happen there because they were only 90 miles from the USA and the USA would never let it happen. And guess what one of the first things Castro did was in Cuba:

 

http://gunowners.org/op0451.htm

 

Those who refuse to learn from history are condemned to repeat it.

[smkummer]

I notice the teacher is carrying a M1 carbine. Nice choice. We have our own M1 carbines in So. Korea that Obama wont let come back in. How about assigning them to the schools under electronic lock. Each teacher that qualifies with it will be given the combo. Very cost effective. Also as a layer of protection, volunteer teachers who qualify can carry also with their own personal weapon.

[Robert Henley]

I notice the teacher is carrying a M1 carbine. Nice choice. We have our own M1 carbines in So. Korea that Obama wont let come back in. How about assigning them to the schools under electronic lock. Each teacher that qualifies with it will be given the combo. Very cost effective. Also as a layer of protection, volunteer teachers who qualify can carry also with their own personal weapon.

 

The area I live in has a certified law enforcement officer in every public school, K-12. They serve as school resource officers, and in addition to providing security they do drug enforcement and build relationships with the kids. This is a "no brainer" to me (what the NRA was proposing, i.e., an armed security guard in every school). And of course as is already well established these so called "gun free zones" (schools without security guards, shopping malls, movie theaters, etc.) are nothing more than targets for criminals with guns.

[35divmp]

Robert:

 

Sadly, the protection for the school from the "school resource officer" (what a silly title) is only as good as the officer is. Add in a big school (like my son's high school) with multiple means of entering and 1 lone officer is stretched to guard everything. Or like the lazy one at my son's former junior high who hides in his office most of the day, guards nothing,

 

Jay

[jim c 351]

Robert:

 

Sadly, the protection for the school from the "school resource officer" (what a silly title) is only as good as the officer is. Add in a big school (like my son's high school) with multiple means of entering and 1 lone officer is stretched to guard everything. Or like the lazy one at my son's former junior high who hides in his office most of the day, guards nothing,

 

Jay

 

And the solution is??

Jim C

[The Lone Ranger]

Robert:

 

Sadly, the protection for the school from the "school resource officer" (what a silly title) is only as good as the officer is. Add in a big school (like my son's high school) with multiple means of entering and 1 lone officer is stretched to guard everything. Or like the lazy one at my son's former junior high who hides in his office most of the day, guards nothing,

 

Jay

 

And the solution is??

Jim C

 

I'll go out on a less traveled limb of late in the wake of this lunatic attack and say there isn't a solution. Government lacks the ability to protect everyone - especially the federal government which by it's largess is the most inefficient and incompetent (look at their track record in venture capitalism for an example). I used to be one of those school cops (extra work, not full time) and while it may help in some instances, prevention isn't happening, especially with multi-floor or multi-building locations. The toughest one was the safest from outside attackers - 3-4 officers, one floor, one door to enter and it was locked while in session. Anyone wanting entry buzzed and was seen on a camera. Someone with a Bushmaster wouldn't get in without alerting everyone there was a problem. Other schools were much more vulnerable.

 

Make some changes in mental health laws and commitment, maybe. Entry control upgrades and procedures for schools - almost certainly some benefit but for all those other soft targets like theatres, malls, festivals... no dice. Either shut them down or accept that killers will go there for ease of access, especially those that advertise the presence of unarmed victims.

[jim c 351]

I'll go out on a less traveled limb of late in the wake of this lunatic attack and say there isn't a solution.

 

LR,

Unfortunately, you are probably correct.

Still, it won't hurt for good Americans to make such suggestions as security guards in order to get ahead of those unworthy of being Americans who see gun laws as the only solution. I agree it should be handled locally, not federally.

As the Left is so famous for saying,-"its worth it even if it only saves one life".

As far as committing crazy people is concerned I should point out that those currently in power think that anyone who owns a Thompson must be mentally unballanced. So, be careful what you wish for.

Jim C

[Chief762]

Preaching to the choir here, we are. Some school districts will learn and harden their sites against attack. Some lives may be saved by the security upgrades thwarting an incident or an incident never materializes because a potential attacker doesn't want to be engaged in a firefight. Others will simply bury their heads in the sand, whine about automatic assault weapons and 30 round magazines and scream for the government to "do something!". In the meantime, the next mass murderer is getting ready.

[mnshooter]

The most effective armed defense isn't uniformed guards, who as such are more easily spotted and evaded by a determined attacker. The same solution that works for the general public works here: an unknown number of unidentifiable persons who may be lawfully carrying a gun anywhere on the school property. Holding those people to the test standards of the Sky Marshals would use a federal standard already accepted as suitable for protection of children in a crowded airplane.

Replace the "Bans guns" (otherwise known as: "everyone here is guaranteed to be helpless against your attack") signs with new notices of: "We are armed and will shoot back" at all entrances.

 

Another Choirmember.

Edited December 29, 2012 by mnshooter

[The Lone Ranger]

It's frightening how many of the US population - gun owners included - look to government to "do something". Most disconcerting is that look is increasingly aimed at the federal establishment; that level which is prohibited (on paper, not in reality) and least capable.

 

And for Jim - you hit on the reason I used the term "maybe" on the mental health aspect. If it gives bureaucrats power to arbitrarily declare someone as needing confinement it would most likely become a political tool. Maybe sooner, maybe later, but I have suspicions it would be abused. I would have more faith in checks and balances where health care professionals (private sector) and courts interact.

[jim c 351]

It's frightening how many of the US population - gun owners included - look to government to "do something". Most disconcerting is that look is increasingly aimed at the federal establishment; that level which is prohibited (on paper, not in reality) and least capable.

 

And for Jim - you hit on the reason I used the term "maybe" on the mental health aspect. If it gives bureaucrats power to arbitrarily declare someone as needing confinement it would most likely become a political tool. Maybe sooner, maybe later, but I have suspicions it would be abused. I would have more faith in checks and balances where health care professionals (private sector) and courts interact.

LR,

Did you happen to catch America's Sheriff, Joe Arpaio on FOX this morning?? Apparently he already has a armed citizens "posse" to patrols high risk locations and will expand it to schools.

Its no damn wonder the feds hate him. He's an American.

Jim C

Edited December 29, 2012 by jim c 351

[james m]

It's frightening how many of the US population - gun owners included - look to government to "do something". Most disconcerting is that look is increasingly aimed at the federal establishment; that level which is prohibited (on paper, not in reality) and least capable.

 

And for Jim - you hit on the reason I used the term "maybe" on the mental health aspect. If it gives bureaucrats power to arbitrarily declare someone as needing confinement it would most likely become a political tool. Maybe sooner, maybe later, but I have suspicions it would be abused. I would have more faith in checks and balances where health care professionals (private sector) and courts interact.

LR,

Did you happen to catch America's Sheriff, Joe Arpaio on FOX this morning?? Apparently he already has a armed citizens "posse" to patrols high risk locations and will expand it to schools.

Its no damn wonder the feds hate him. He's an American.

Jim C

I live in Arizona and am aware of what Sheriff Arpaio** is preparing to do. However; I also think it's important that we offer to train teachers that are willing to be trained in the effective use of firearms in a defensive situation. I agree with the comment above that the less obvious the school defenders are the more effective they'll probably be.

**Sheriff Arpaio is detested by the liberal left and the appologists for the illegals here who are milking our social systems dry. Yes the Obama administration hates him for doing the job they refuse to do.

Jim

Edited December 29, 2012 by james m

[The Lone Ranger]

Had not seen Sheriff Joe recently, but I am in his fan club since the tent city days where he got on the tube prior to some basketball game and declared that no looters would be turned away from his jail.

 

Also all for allowing teachers to carry - the story is long gone and will never be resurrected by the media under current circumstances but a few years back a teacher in MS stopped a loony-tune attack with a handgun - and he even had to go to his car to get it because he wasn't allowed to bring it in. I was living in MS at the time, smaller town if I recall and I don't think it got national attention.

 

Roscoe - if you are reading this, does it ring any bells? Thinking it was somewhere around Jackson - the local radio talk show guy in the mornings talked about it. Guesstimate 2006-2007?