joseph12297 Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 Hi This barrel is stated to be taken off a 28 Navy gun that was scrapped years ago. Its a numbered barrel 5?6. I can t make out the middle number and I only have a phone camera and no magnifying glass Only has one witness mark on it. Thing is the pin for the front sight and later compensator used the same groove, looks like they may have threaded the comps on the barrel still on the gun?Does anyone know how they converted the 21A's to compensated? It looks like it was a GG Rorke second shipment gun barrel if it starts with 5 and ends with 6, no matter what the middle number is.What ever happened to all the Rorke 2nd shipment guns, there are very few updates in TUTB or Gordons book except for the original shipment info? Any info would be appreciated from our experts! Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron_brock Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 The comps were added to the existing diameter that was used for the sight. These are the early small diameter comps (I think it was 0.625). Later they increased the diameter of the barrel and switched to the 0.750 die size. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kocapuff1 Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 Now all you need is a Type 1 Compensator for that Colt barrel! Doug Richardson has 3 listed Colt Type 1s compensators on his website for I think $550 each. He's in Belize right now, but he leaves his number, if you call his main phone number on the website, if your interested, my friend. Maybe you can talk him down, but he's a stickler. Great find, congratulations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph12297 Posted February 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 This one is actually threaded .75 for a type 2 or 3 comp Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantpanda4 Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 (edited) Threaded .750 AND has a number electropencilled (or stamped?) on the breech end? Interesting.... Sounds like a later addition to an original barrel - probably not by sending the gun back to the factory but adapting the "Current" (.750 thread) cutts to and original barrel. I wasn't sure there was enough meat on the barrel to do that... Edited February 25, 2016 by giantpanda4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD. Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 Larry,I thought that barrel had been threaded for a Type 2 compensator. It appears the threading operation did not remove all the original notch for the ring front sight pin. Any chance you can post a better picture of the number (I like guessing too)? Don't you have another numbered Colt barrel? All good stuff!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph12297 Posted February 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 I had a couple of numbered barrels previously and these number stamping a are consistent with those.I am confident it is a numbered barrel. Am traveling will post more pics in a few days:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantpanda4 Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 So clarify this for my small brain.... IF you had a 1921 (or for that matter a 1928 Navy too), and wanted to get a Cutts put on it, you would send it back to Auto Ord and they would do it for you, right? Initially, they put the Type 1 comps on original barrels. Then, when they had a potential issue with overtightening the comps, they put a Type 2 - but they would have to change the barrel to do that - right? So how would an original barrel (I believe your barrel IS original!) get a type 2 comp? Someone outside of Auto Ord threaded it? Why didn't Auto Ord do that on all additions rather than swapping barrels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph12297 Posted February 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 HiAnswers to how they converted the colts to have type 1 or 2-3 comps 80 plus years ago I have no idea , that's why I am askingIf they for sure spent the money and effort to change the barrel to put a comp on seems extreme to me.FWIW, which is not alotOr the story I got is wrong, or the Navy he is speaking of had at some point the barrel swapped out with this one.Or someone just threaded a 21 barrel at some point to .75?? I have had a few numbered barrels over time and they were all stamped not engraved numbers as this is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjr2412 Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 If I remember correctly, the muzzle diameter for the original barrels (with ring type sights) is 0.750", so threading one for 0.750" x 28 to fit the Type II or III compensators would not be a problem except that the groove for the previously fitted ring type sight would remain. It is pure speculation on my part, but I would guess that the 0.660" x 28 thread for the Type I was chosen so that the ring type sight pin groove would be removed during the process. Possibly it was determined that the presence of the groove was not a problem and the switch to the larger thread size was made. If for no other reason, it would involve less machining. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph12297 Posted February 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 Here is a picture of the stamping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bug Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 Paul, that's pretty much it, but I believe that the threading of the barrel over the pin slot was considered bad practice and prone to problems. Turning down and threading the barrel for the T1 comp was suitable for prototype work (like the 2 pc actuator) but when it was seen that the 28 NAVY was a winner AOC took the high road by using new parts. IMHO. Bob D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 Here is a picture of the stamping image.jpeg Here is #416 breech marking and barrel fins for comparison. The "6" does appear different from #5?6. The fins on #416 appear distinctly thinner than the #5?6 .barrel fins There is a 2007 thread regarding 2nd pattern Cutts and 1932(?) Remington barrels to accommodate the threading. http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8748&hl= remington barrel 1932 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph12297 Posted February 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 (edited) Thank you very much for the good info.When I get back home I will check the fins on my 21AC that was delivered new in 1930, with the type 1 comp. And I will dig up pictures of the numbered barrels I had before. Got to my pictures of numbered barrels, and my 21AC pictures. Fins are not right at all. Maybe a 28 barrel smoothed out. Very clear, thanks to all. Ok, so back to the history part, where did all the Rorke second shipment guns end up? Edited February 26, 2016 by joseph12297 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bt3_guns Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 Here is 664. It's from one of the GG Roark guns. A close up of the number and the fins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 Do the 5's & 6's look different from barrel #5?6 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kocapuff1 Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 (edited) Paul is very smart, incredibly talented and gifted man, among other things! Great info Paul Larry,Very lucky it's a .750 thread! I have a lead on a Cutts Type 2 Comp in Europe if you need, but of course been thru war on a early Savage 1928 and you'll have to get it sanded, prepped and re-blued like a Colt... PM or email me if your interested. Edited February 27, 2016 by Kocapuff1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLansky Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 this may be off an AC gun, but likely not off a Navy. Gordon's book references two 3 digit Navy's. #525 from Ron Kovar's collection and #857 in the Marine Corp. museum. the three digit guns are very well researched and documented. if another Navy was out there, it would be listed. while there are a handful of 3 digit guns for which Gordon did not have info, I do not think any of them are in 500 serial number range. Gordon and I had several conversations about the lowest numbered Navy and we was very confident that Ron's 525 was it. Also, it is curious that an early 3 digit gun, clearly originally issued with an early barrel would be fitted for the comp that was designed for the later barrel. the barrel looks like a later barrel to me --based on the width of the fins--perhaps the gun was sent back to be fitted with the comp and the barrel was replaced and Auto Ordnance hand stamped the barrel for the owner when replacing it? it was not uncommon to replace barrels when fitting for the comp, but I am not aware of barrels being renumbered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph12297 Posted February 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 Ill bring it by the TATA show this summer, folks can take a look at it in person. It has the Colt blue color and no proof marks, Thanks all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now