Adg105200 Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 No dog in the fight, but it looks like a legit grip. I do have a few original pieces of Thompson wood that are a darker redder shade. One of them is a British 3 numbers matching 28 stock. It all depends on lighting, camera etc. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RChapman Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 (edited) I think you are over exagerating in thinking a person would spend much time and effort to get barely 500$ every 10 months. It is completely out of mind. The grip color is very common in the Thompson field when the wood starts to get aged especially when the grip isnt being held in a box like the one you got,and have probably spent some time in the battlefield. As Andrew stated color can easily vary depending on the camera and lighting. Regarding the marks, i really believe it wasnt made with automated pressing machines, reason why it could also slightly vary a few micron. Dont tell me no, because honestly i have seen hundreds of markings both in Thompsons and woods, and everyone can agree they are not precisely the same on every single piece. Wood can slightly bulge deform swell or whatever, altering the markings. Was the grip you bought from him marked Skittorius, if yes please show us a picture Edited February 3, 2018 by RChapman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skittorius Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 The one I bought from him last year was unmarked, can't take pics because I threw it out but he sold one recently that was marked with a suspect "S", there is a thread here with a auction link I'll try to find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skittorius Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 Here we go, previous ebay auction with S mark ? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Thompson-1928-Vertical-Grip-S-mark-/253041399583 My thread of shame http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20969 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black River Militaria CII Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 In my opinion, the GB grip is junk, thoroughly worn round and blurry in all details. The issue of its provenance is a silly argument and there can be NO satisfactory agreeable resolution between the contestants. You cannot protect buyers from from themselves and it is a fool’s errand to try.Many vintage parts sold today are in poor condition, often relics, especially in Europe where dug relics and well worn examples of all sorts of parts and pieces have a significant following and value. That is collecting niche that only exists in the US amongst a small niche of collectors who prize the possession of a particular “rare” object above and beyond its condition. From what I observe from pics on a board like Wehrmacht Awards, in Europe there are many collectors who prize worn, rusted but objects that are venerable due to their legitimacy as historic representations of particular battles and events. What I see happening here is a misunderstanding due to major cultural differences in collector values. A grip such as the one on GB really holds no especial interest or value for most US collectors except the issue of its trade value, which is now very high. Unless the collector belongs to the niche of collectors valuing possession of any example of an object regardless of its condition, it is not a very collectible part. Collector “value” is immensely subjective and in my opinion, this discussion is about that between people with very different values.Repros in Europe are a high art now and there are a huge variety of them representing in some cases extreme complexity in manufacture. For example, extremely accurate complete, live firing reproductions of MP40s are being made in Eastern Europe, possibly Russia or another neighboring country. All parts are being reproduced and the quality is very high.They look really good and some are aged to look like they are battlefield pickups. Some of these new made parts are now being sold on GB and by one or two US retailers who have made the claim that they are original German manufactured parts.So, that GB grip can perfectly reasonably be regarded as a valid example of the type and whether it is a repro or not counts for a lot less overseas than in the US.Flash back to distressed jeans.....remember those? FWIW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RChapman Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 (edited) No, IMHO thats not enough to condemn a person to the eternal falsification. I see only suggestions over suggestions that the item is a fake Now if you find a buttstock with half anchor, or somehow a defaced anchor, deeper or slightly larger in some point, or whatever, and it comes without the Colt hardware, should you assume that this buttstock is one hundred percent fake? how. there is no real way to tell. I have clicked on the ebay auction you stated to have won, and there is no mention to the originality of the item. I can understand if the guy wrote in the description " oh deez is 150% real beliv me i have tuk it from Gen. Thompson itself handed to me back in de days, forgeet aboout it"... but it dont seems the case. Why should you have decided to go all in with such crazy amount of dollars with so many cons? Anyway, i am not here to resurrect what appears to be a locked post. As a collector i have handed many of these and all of them are different. but NO, i dont agree at all that the grip on GB is a repro, and trying to call that a repro is a total misjudgement. Thats literally judging a product by its seller.You just cant replicate the item so perfectly, I challenge anyone to do so. With "social medias" like ebay, where apparently these gets thousand of views, the market would have been already FLOODED with these like the universal vertical grip flooding with "artist" from all over the world, and 80% of them from russia or ukraine Edited February 3, 2018 by RChapman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skittorius Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 (edited) I have clicked on the ebay auction you stated to have won, and there is no mention to the originality of the item.But I did message the seller and he claimed to not have knowledge about the originality, and then I found a old link where he's asking for info on the grip and he was informed it was a repro. So he : A: He posted a thread asking about the authenticity of grip. The grip was then identified as a repro.B: He listed the grip on ebay, and when I messaged him about the originality he claimed he did not know but that it came from a collection. I have screenshots posted in the linked thread of my communications with him. Edited February 3, 2018 by Skittorius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RChapman Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 (edited) Apparently an opportunist for sure, but i dont think its the same guy with holy hands who crafted the holy grail, capable of incredible magic. from my point of view, if he had these skills, he would sell more hand crafted american walnut precisely original repros AS repros, than just one original every 6 months. but if he's not doing it, its because hes just not that person. Edited February 3, 2018 by RChapman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skittorius Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 I understand your point and I'm not saying his current item is fake, I'm just pointing out that he has been exposed as being dishonest and that he might not be the best person to do business with. He also uses purple stain lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RChapman Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 (edited) Oh come on thats not purple stain, it appears to be the old battered grip color Hey, now is not because you got the minty young fresh example picked up with a time machine, that you can compare all the others with it eheh You should really put up a lyman adjustable instead of the L sight at the back of that 1928 Edited February 3, 2018 by RChapman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skittorius Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 I do have and adjustable sight for it but my laziness has been winning lately and still need to install. I was able to make (modify) my own rivets, I spun them in my drill press and re-shaped the heads with my dremel coarse sanding drum, pretty quick job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron_brock Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 (edited) Oh come on thats not purple stain, it appears to be the old battered grip color Hey, now is not because you got the minty young fresh example picked up with a time machine, that you can compare all the others with it eheh You should really put up a lyman adjustable instead of the L sight at the back of that 1928RChapman,Im curious where you are located. Are you in Europe and know the seller? I know you mention the business case does not seem probable however recall also that International Antiques is the seller of rosin printed wood like grips too. He went to the effort to create a model and 3D print rosin grips to sell for nearly $400 as I recall. As to the posted GB grip I will not comment as I have no dog in the fight. Ron Edited February 3, 2018 by ron_brock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin601 Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 Saw this one posted on another forum I frequent - OP was wondering if it was original or a repro. Thoughts? IMG_2285.jpg IMG_2286.jpg IMG_2287.JPG IMG_2288.JPG IMG_2289.jpgthat is not how the British inletted for a sling swivel, by cutting a dado on the right side of the grip. If it was original, it was destroyed by cutting that dado.. The Bottle of purple wood dye in the background does not help his case either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skittorius Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 Lol ! I didn't notice that, good eye ! IMG_2288.JPG IMG_2289.jpgThe Bottle of purple wood dye in the background does not help his case either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RChapman Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 Oh come on thats not purple stain, it appears to be the old battered grip color Hey, now is not because you got the minty young fresh example picked up with a time machine, that you can compare all the others with it eheh You should really put up a lyman adjustable instead of the L sight at the back of that 1928RChapman,Im curious where you are located. Are you in Europe and know the seller? I know you mention the business case does not seem probable however recall also that International Antiques is the seller of rosin printed wood like grips too. He went to the effort to create a model and 3D print rosin grips to sell for nearly $400 as I recall. As to the posted GB grip I will not comment as I have no dog in the fight. Ron I remember, if you have the tools available in your zone, laser scan and send the 3d file to a 3d printer or router wont require that much effort. I know him since i was "contracted" to make all the 3d editing for his repros. I know he took the 3d printing way because of crazy costs to reproduce any small batch of grips, Noone will run a CNC machine for 10 pieces for example. unless you do a thousand or so, you will not get any reasonable prices for these jobs. You will need way more than a lifetime to sell these as original at the rate of one or two every year. Yes Paladin, these items can be easily found online https://www.ebay.de/itm/US-ARMY-WW2-THOMPSON-M1928-LAUF-HOLZ-GRIFF-VORDERGRIFF-TOMMY-GUN-SCHRAUBE/182698332180?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D49927%26meid%3D049a31b6d2854b5592072197b97a8713%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D3%26sd%3D161567266149%26itm%3D182698332180&_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850 it appears to be the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hammer Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 RChapman, you come from the the same location in Europe as Joseph_T the Infamous Jose Toscano the grip forger who was banned from this board, your language and sentence structure matches his old posts, that's very interesting. You "know" him, it sounds like you know him Very well. My antenna comes up when you go out of your way to defend a known forger of grips where people have been burned up to the tune of $1550? How can you defend a known dishonest person when honesty is the keystone among gun collectors, you are not really Joseph_T posting under a new name are you? No, of course not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 RChapman, you come from the the same location in Europe as Joseph_T the Infamous Jose Toscano the grip forger who was banned from this board, your language and sentence structure matches his old posts, that's very interesting. You "know" him, it sounds like you know him Very well. My antenna comes up when you go out of your way to defend a known forger of grips where people have been burned up to the tune of $1550? How can you defend a known dishonest person when honesty is the keystone among gun collectors, you are not really Joseph_T posting under a new name are you? No, of course not. Confirmed and resolved... David Albertdalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hammer Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 Thank you David for confirming my suspicions, the "smell" was palpable, case closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 (edited) I find this a bit ridicolous, and i find that many in this board and are very good at shooting undisputed sentences that cant be discussed. A dishonest person wont have multiple positive feedbacks, with plenty of board members here who concluded purchases with me. I wont do any name because maybe they get banned for being just my friends. Dont forget that most of the thousand Thompsons with a Savage vertical grip were sent to europe, reason why its far more easier to find hardwares. IF, you take some time and look for it. And No Black River Militaria, its not because its Europe it means that all items have to be dug up from the ground and are rotten. that said, Keep advertise my items as fake if you like. I find my message to be totally inoffensive and respectful, so i see no reason why it should be removed. If there was a button to self ban myself, i would press it right now. but i guess i dont need to wait much for this to happen. best regards. Edited February 3, 2018 by Batman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin601 Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 (edited) Good job, Mike and David Edited February 3, 2018 by Paladin601 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin601 Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 I find this a bit ridicolous, and i find that many in this board and are very good at shooting undisputed sentences that cant be discussed. A dishonest person wont have multiple positive feedbacks, with plenty of board members here who concluded purchases with me. I wont do any name because maybe they get banned for being just my friends. Dont forget that most of the thousand Thompsons with a Savage vertical grip were sent to europe, reason why its far more easier to find hardwares. IF, you take some time and look for it. And No Black River Militaria, its not because its Europe it means that all items have to be dug up from the ground and are rotten. that said, Keep advertise my items as fake if you like. I find my message to be totally inoffensive and respectful, so i see no reason why it should be removed. If there was a button to self ban myself, i would press it right now. but i guess i dont need to wait much for this to happen. best regards. Wow, that did not take long to make a come back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anjong-ni Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 Of course it's unpardonable to mis-represent an item as "original". But it leaves us all with the question as to How far? we can go with regards to "reasonable restoration". Interesting article in last month's "Hagarty Insurance" magazine about the fellow that owns Steve McQueen's Mustang from the movie "Bullitt". '67 GT390. One of the real ones. He had to replace some brake lines and fender bolts so the car would pass inspection in his State, which he did. Did this measurably lower the car's value? The consensus is...well, no, not a bit......Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 To anyone new here, if you are reading this, it may seem that banning may be commonplace on this board. It is not. I started Machinegunboards.com in 2008, after Frank Iannamico decided he no longer wanted to maintain the forums on Machinegunbooks.com. The forums were transferred to me. Since the start of Machinegunboards.com, there have only been 2 members banned. Both have been banned in the last year. One person has been banned under several different names, as is evident here. The other member was banned a couple of weeks ago, because he just could not interact appropriately with others. David Albertdalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devious6 Posted February 3, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 I’m feeling bad because I started this train wreck. In my defense, I was honestly looking for a read on the grip. Sorry, guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 I’m feeling bad because I started this train wreck. In my defense, I was honestly looking for a read on the grip. Sorry, guys. Devious6, Not your fault at all...It seems that vertical grip posts attract central Italian IP addresses... David Albertdalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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