Unregistered 'tommy Gun' Triggers Queries At Agenc

[ACARLG]

Inquiry: 'Tommy gun' no secret

 

Dallas: Others besides sheriff's commander knew of it, probe finds

 

12:00 AM CST on Monday, December 4, 2006

 

By KEVIN KRAUSE / The Dallas Morning News

 

A top Dallas County sheriff's commander who was demoted for keeping an unregistered Thompson submachine gun in his office locker for about five years wasn't the only high-ranking officer who knew about the weapon, according to an internal affairs investigation.

 

Larry Locke was demoted from assistant chief deputy to captain in July by Sheriff Lupe Valdez for not properly securing the 1940s-era "Tommy gun" in the department's property room as required by policy.

 

However, former Sheriff Jim Bowles' top deputy, Larry Forsyth, and Mr. Bowles' legal adviser, Leslie Sweet, both knew of the existence of the gun, according to an internal investigation.

 

Capt. Locke now says that he was only following instructions and that he is being made to take the blame unfairly.

 

"I'm not a thief. I did what I was told to do," he said. "People did know about that gun. They acted as if they didn't."

 

Mr. Forsyth told two internal investigators that he advised Capt. Locke to "secure the gun and keep it quiet" because the sheriff had a "fascination with machine guns," according to internal affairs documents.

 

Mr. Forsyth, who retired as executive chief deputy after Mr. Bowles left office, said in a written statement to investigators that he was concerned Sheriff Bowles would take the gun but that he didn't know Capt. Locke kept it in his locker.

 

Mr. Sweet, who is now Sheriff Valdez's legal adviser, said in a memo to Sheriff Valdez that he agreed that Capt. Locke should hold onto the machine gun "under separate secure lockup."

 

Mr. Forsyth and Mr. Sweet both said they were concerned at the time about Sheriff Bowles taking the machine gun because he had recently kept a different Thompson submachine gun in his office that reportedly belonged to legendary Sheriff Bill Decker.

 

"Chief Forsyth was concerned that this second gun showing up would cause Sheriff Bowles to once again think that the first gun belonged to him and in his office," Mr. Sweet said in a July 11 memo.

 

Mr. Bowles, who lost his bid for re-election when he was defeated in the 2004 primary, referred questions about the matter to his attorney, John Barr.

 

Mr. Barr said that the internal investigation contains a number of "misstatements" and that Mr. Bowles is being unfairly blamed. He said Mr. Bowles is not a gun enthusiast and has never carried a gun.

 

"This is a scam to put something on Sheriff Bowles so not to assume personal responsibility," he said. "This is backstabbing."

 

Firearm concerns

 

Mr. Barr said Mr. Bowles asked that Sheriff Decker's machine gun be brought to his office after he watched a 1997 shootout on television between Los Angeles police and bank robbers armed with high-powered automatic rifles.

 

Mr. Bowles kept it locked in the closet outside the bathroom in his office for possible use by his deputies, Mr. Barr said.

 

"He locked it up and gave the key to the dispatch supervisor so they could get it if they needed it. He never shot it or kept it," Mr. Barr said.

 

Mr. Forsyth said in his statement that he was concerned about the fully automatic Decker machine gun being in Sheriff Bowles' office, which was not secure, had glass windows and wasn't electrically armed.

 

"Hardly a safe place to keep a loaded machine gun," Mr. Forsyth said in his statement.

 

Mr. Forsyth said that he told the sheriff his concerns but that Sheriff Bowles believed he had a right to "carry" it because he was the sheriff.

 

"I then pointed out the historic history that would be lost if something happened to the gun," Mr. Forsyth said in his statement. "Bowles reluctantly agreed I could return it to the property room."

 

Not long after that, Capt. Locke told Mr. Forsyth about another Thompson submachine gun that had been turned in to the department.

 

"I told Locke something to the effect: 'Take that ... thing and lock it up. I don't want another machine gun floating around here. And for God's sake don't tell Bowles there is another one.' " Mr. Forsyth said in his statement.

 

Mr. Sweet told investigators that he and Mr. Forsyth agreed that Capt. Locke should keep the gun secured until Mr. Forsyth decided what to do with it. Mr. Forsyth, however, never did decide, according to the internal affairs report.

 

Capt. Locke told investigators he moved the machine gun at least four times during the time he had it. The last time he moved it was in the fall of 2005 when carpet was being replaced in the executive offices, the report said.

 

Capt. Locke said he kept the gun in the trunk of his county vehicle for a day or two while the carpeting was replaced, the report said.

 

Capt. Locke showed the machine gun to Executive Chief Deputy Jesse Flores in June, according to the internal affairs report. Chief Flores told investigators Capt. Locke failed to tell him the gun was not properly documented and was not registered with the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

 

Capt. Locke also didn't tell Chief Flores that no one else in the department's executive staff, including Sheriff Valdez, knew about the weapon, the report said. Chief Flores later ordered an internal affairs investigation.

 

Where gun came from

 

The investigation found that a client of Ray's Sporting Goods brought the gun to the store in 1999 or 2000 after finding it among his father's belongings. The client, who wished to remain anonymous, didn't want the gun because it had no paperwork and was illegal to possess, the report said.

 

However, store owner Donnie Durbin said the gun was found in the trash behind the store. Mr. Durbin said he called Gary Lachman, a sheriff's deputy at the time, to pick up the gun.

 

Mr. Lachman and Joe Gardsbane, an immigration agent at the time, said they picked up the gun. Mr. Lachman said that while he was working on the required paperwork to submit the gun to the property room, Capt. Locke told him to give the gun and the paperwork to him and he would handle it.

 

Capt. Locke said he doesn't remember receiving any paperwork from Deputy Lachman.

 

"I felt that my instructions were to keep the weapon in a safe location where Sheriff Bowles did not have ready access to it," Capt. Locke wrote in a statement for the internal affairs investigation.

 

The Tommy gun has since been registered and placed in the property room. Sheriff Valdez has said she would like to display it for the public.

 

Two handguns that had been in the custody of the department's now-defunct drug unit are still missing.

 

An investigation did not reveal a culprit, and the Browning 9 mm and Stinger .22-caliber handguns have been reported as stolen, sheriff's spokesman Raul Reyna said.

 

E-mail kkrause@dallasnews.com

[Roland, Headless Thompson Gunner]

QUOTE

Hardly a safe place to keep a loaded machine gun," Mr. Forsyth said in his statement.

 

I guess Oswald could attest to that as well.

[Motorcar]

Wow! Imagine what one might find in one's trash dumpster after hours http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/blink.gif At least it has a good outcome and the new Sherrif wants to display it to the public, and got it papered http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/smile.gif Best thing for a war relic if they won't let us keep it.

[oda572]

For forty years I have sniped ground hogs in Ohio. I was "high sniper" in Special Operation Training at Mott Lake on Fort Bragg, NC while I served with the Fifth Special Forces Group. Etc., etc., etc. All true. But ....... I never had an opinion about Lee Oswald until I looked out that very same window at the Schoolbook Depository in Dallas in 1982. I looked at the traffic, the height, the angle, the speed. After that I knew that Oswald never made that shot. I know that I could never make that shot. At least not the first time.

 

So go look out that window and ask yourself if a loser like Oswald could have done it. I know a lot was made of the fact that he was a "Marksman" in the military. Remember, "Marksman" is the LOWEST classification you can earn, beneath Sharpshooter and Expert. They'll keep you on the range all day and night till you "earn" Marksman.

 

The truth will never be known now about this death. Even if the truth was told, it would not be recognized. JFK, RFK, Marilyn Monroe, and Roswell, New Mexico. We'll get all the answers in heaven.

[Hawkeye_Joe]

What really gets me is the atmosphere of this department, that they had to "hide" things from the Sheriff. My god!...He is the highest ranking Law Enforcement Officer in the county and his Chief Deputy and his legal adviser are conspiring to hide guns from him?????

 

What the former Chief Deputy, now Capt., should have done is, as soon as the old Sheriff was out of office, report the unregistered Thompson to the new Sheriff and wash his hands of the whole mess.

[oda572]

Phil,

 

That's just the point. I consider myself a pretty good shot and I just can't believe Oswald or anybody else could have made that shot from that window. Perhaps if I had a full scale mock-up of the buiding and Deally (?) Plaza and had Castro himself pulling a target behind his '59 Chevy at various speeds, I could have gotten good enough to have made that shot. Short of that, no way.

 

I really don't care, after 43 years, who pulled the trigger. There are much bigger fish to fry today. It is just this writer's opinion, one who has a least a little "trigger time", that Oswald did not make the shot. And as Forrest Gump said, "I guess that's all I'll say about that."

[railroader]

If memory serves me correctly, he leaned foward after the first shot, that came from behind, but how do you account for his head snapping backward violently, and the back of his head being blown out, along with some of his brains, which is what Jackie was going after when you see her climbing out on the trunk of the car.

 

One bullet my ass. The Warren report was bullshit.

 

Railroader

[Roland, Headless Thompson Gunner]

Good point Railroader, I think you have touched on an area that no one has ever thought of. Now that I think about, wasn't there a guy with an umbrella? And what about those hobos that they let go, and didn't Bell Helicopter stock soar on the folloiwng Monday, and didn't Ruby have connections with the mob and let's not forget that doctored photo with the shadow in the wrong direction, and didn't Oswald go to Mexico, and wasn't it Marina's friend that got him the job at the book depository and Jim Garrison had it all right but the CIA got to the jurors and Clay Shaw got off scot free and Kevin Bacon was Oswald's secret lover. No doubt in my mind that Frank Sinatra got his payback for JFK standing him up. .

 

Oh yeah, and Jackie wasn't going after his brains, she was getting the f@#k out there, since she could see the firing squad lined up on the grassy knoll.

[Nick Iannamico]

goddamn it i don't even want to get involved.

 

how the hell did oswald miss general walker who was a stationary target! (then come home to marina, sick, pale and scared looking like he just tried to kill someone.) yet a mere 8 months later he is shooting moving targets and killing them with head shots! then less then a minute or so later is calm in the lunch room drinkng a soda? (among other things)

 

He may have been involved in one way or another, but he didn't pull any triggers that particular day.

and as well all very well know.. NO ONE HERE is going to change anyones mind about what they believe what happened that day.. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO if you guys want to talk about it until the back of your heads blow out that is fine.........PLEASE keep it VERY civil.. thanks!!!

[hawksnest]

It was aliens (illegal of course) from space.

[Lancer]

QUOTE (PhilOhio @ Dec 7 2006, 02:41 PM)

Something else is starting to make sense. I think Elvis was involved, somehow or other. That has to be why Nixon gave him that badge, to shut him up. He couldn't just say "no", and Elvis knew it. And if Elvis was mixed up in it, it could only because Col. Tom Parker was manipulating him so effectively. In fact, the more I think about it, this is probably why somebody slipped Elvis the drugs that did him in in Vegas. He had to be silenced, so he wouldn't rat out the connection between Jack Ruby and Sam Giancana and Sam's sometimes girlfriend Judith Exner, who was also sacking it with JFK himself. Which really makes you wonder about JFK's role in the whole deal, and how much Kevin Bacon actually knows, that he isn't talking about. And who is behind Kevin Bacon's amazing professional success, when talent doesn't seem to be the most likely cause? More payoffs to shut up, methinks. Somebody just isn't leveling with us. Probably a lot of somebodies. It's so rare when one person just goes bananas and...well...kills somebody just because he wants to. I think the American people have a right to know. Michael Moore, Help!

I have long suspected that Elvis played a roll and let's not forget that Bill Clinton met with JFK before his death.........Coincidence? Me thinks not!!!

[Roland, Headless Thompson Gunner]

But you have to agree with Kevn Costner's character. You just have to decide which one:

 

"This is the key shot. Watch it again. The President going back to his left. Shot from the front and right. Totally inconsistent with the shot from the Depository. Again -- . . . back and to the left. . . . back and to the left . . . back and to the left" - Kevn Costner as Jim Garrison in JFK.

 

"I believe Oswald acted alone" - Kevn Costner as Crash Davis in Bull Durham.

 

 

This is a great site with its sub page on the 100 errors in Oliver Stone's JFK. I think they just ran out of internet space, that is why they stopped at 100.

 

http://www.jfk-online.com/jfk100menu.html

 

 

[skoda]

I work with a guy who's totally absorbed into the Kennedy assassination. Every time I throw out some quasi-factoid or theory that I hear (or make up) he goes into a tirade about it and starts talking about Zapbruder (sp?) films, and CIA agents dressed as bums on the railroad, etc., etc. He's quite entertaining and I often provoke him just for that reason. You two remind me of him. Thank you. I think that I'll take some of your dialog and go visit him now........

 

 

[Hawkeye_Joe]

I just wonder what the hell all has to do with the price of Thompson lockers in the Dallas Sheriff's office?? http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/soapbox.gif

[TAS1921AC]

The perfect way to end this thread........

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h266/TAS21AC/th_DallasGoodnight.jpg

 

[Z3BigDaddy]

Wow that is so wrong for so many reasons.... http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/laugh.gif

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h266/TAS21AC/DallasGoodnight.jpg

btaim.... I don't care how difficult the shots were, if you haven't made unrepeatable shots in your life then you haven't shot much... Two I can think of for myself.... I shot a dragonfly off a power line first shot with my trusty one pump bb gun when I was a bitty kid.... I made a 200 yard shot offhand with my 357 AutoMag while in the woods with Screwy Louie and his full auto entorage, you need to be from Oregon, that I will never repeat.... It was my first shot and all eyes widened and jaws dropped... They ask me if it shot like that all the time and I said absolutely but I never shot it again that day since I knew it would be a buzzkill on my amazing skills..... Can I repeat these shots, not likely.... But they did happen, absolutley.... Unless maybe the spirit of Elvis..... Never mind.......

[hawksnest]

Z3: I always wondered what the Oswald/Ruby photo looked like BEFORE the news media retouched it as part of the great coveup. Thanks to your keen eye for detail we now know. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/hail.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/hail.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/hail.gif

[Chromebolt]

I saw an interesting clip on the news about Pearl Harbor. The Detective in the Oswald/Ruby photo (white suit with hat) was a survivor of Pearl Harbor. then he went into police work and became a Detective. He was cuffed to Oswald when Ruby shot him.

 

Just some trivia.

 

CB