DXDunner Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Today in a conversation with a very reliable ATF agent an amazing story has emerged. The agents said (and I have no reason to not believe him) that some months ago he received a call from a local scuba diver who said that he had been diving on a liberty ship from WW II and discovered a whole intact shipment of Thompsons. Now the quantity mentioned was 10,000 guns. Allegedly, the diver told the agent that the guns were still packed in cosmoline grease and (can you believe it?) in perfect shape. Obviously, the diver would not identify himself and, not surprisingly, the agent did his duty by advising the diver that 1) the guns would be unregistered and, therefore, contraband and 2) in any event they wewre probably still Government property so if recovered would be seized on bot counts. Now who knows if any of this is true or not. I'm just posting this in the spirit of passing it along for what it's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimFromFL Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 That would make for an interesting story. Even with the cosmoline, I find it hard to be in perfect shape after about 50+ years in the ocean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD. Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 I am not a scuba diver and know very little about this hobby. However, I would think that most of the transport ships sank by German U-Boats carrying supplies to England and Europe would have been in very deep water. If that is the case, then the limitations of depth a scuba diver can submerge would certainly make this story unlikely. It seems like I have heard a story similiar to this several years ago. I would think Thompson's packed in cosmoline submerged in very very deep water may very well be intact. However, the closer to the surface, I would think 50 years would have pretty much destroyed everything. Of course, I am just guessing as I have no expertise in this area. Any divers out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavediver Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 I am a diver and the chances of guns being in perfect condition after 50 years in recreational depth 130 ft or less wouuld be doubtful. Even steel shipping containers would have deteriorated. Look at the Andrea Doria sank in 1957 at 230 ft and now all metal inside is in very poor condition. Now on the other hand if a ship in one of the Great lakes in 130ft of fresh very cold water that would be a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Sergeant Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 I'm also a diver and agree with cavediver. Cold fresh water would certainly give the Thompson's a better chance. Cosmoline is pretty tough stuff, as most of us who have tried cleaning military surplus rifles know, but I doubt it or they would survive intact. I'm sure the Gov't has done studies on this. Anyone know of any? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Maybe they were the 24k gold plated "Historical Society" guns! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/laugh.gif I'm sure the salt would have reduced them to rust by now. Maybe the Blish locks are still good; aren't they made out of bronze? It is sad to know that 10,000 of the fine guns were lost like this. I wonder how the wood looks? http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/huh.gif Norm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland, Headless Thompson Gunner Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 In Chris Ellis' book on the Thompson he states that up to 100,000 may have been lost in the convoys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bug Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 3,000 Colt Thompsons destined for France sent to the "lower" N Atlantic via U Boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fencer Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 There was some obscure "syndicated" show a few years ago about a treasure hunter, loosely based upon "Tomb Hunter" who was diving on a wreck and found a bunch of Thompsons (they even showed a fake damaged one). Thing is it was fiction, someone might be mixing reality with fiction and spreading it as truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 QUOTE ....someone might be mixing reality with fiction and spreading it as truth. Sounds like most politicians to me! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/laugh.gif Norm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chromebolt Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 I thought the laws of the sea mandated salvage went to the one recovering it, not the original owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1921 Gangsta Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 THIS THREAD IS USLESS WITHOUT PICS ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Iannamico Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 A sailor from a Greek salvage company sent me some photos a while back. As you can see these guns are not serviceable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantpanda4 Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Frank - did he include info on where he got these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce V 21/28 Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Hmmmm, I say for sale purposes they are at least NRA rated 75% http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 QUOTE (giantpanda4 @ Nov 16 2006, 01:14 PM)Frank - did he include info on where he got these? Bet it was Sarco's hand pick bin! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Askew Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Bob is absolutly right, I have seen these at Sarco, some of their best!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Mint condition- NEVER used! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee P Six Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 I was at the Pensacola Air Museum several years ago and saw a display of a plane that went down , I believe, in one of the Great Lakes. It had been under water for decades. Part of the display was the Browning machineguns that had been on board. Other than some very light surface pitting, the guns were functional and visually appealing. The water was of course was fresh, deep and cold. I don't think the ocean would be quite as forgiving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland, Headless Thompson Gunner Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 QUOTE Hmmmm, I say for sale purposes they are at least NRA rated 75% Let's be honiest: "some pitting and minor surface rust" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Iannamico Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 But these are unfired! They were new in the crate...or what was left of it. These were found off the coast of North Africa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 I say sandblast 'em and gold plate them. "Its not pitting, that's engraving." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD. Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Tman, Quick question: Would any of the top three Thompson's in the picture be legal to own in the US with no paperwork assuming they were rusted completely shut? I have heard one BATFE test involves 'readily convertible to fire?' It does not look like these rusted out hulks would be in that condition. Thanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Quite a difference between deep freshwater (which tends to preserve stuff at cold temperatures) and Saltwater at any depth or temperature.... I recall a National Geographic magazine about five years ago that showed a diver who had recovered a 28 Thompson from a transport that sank in the pacific (40-50 feet, I think?) and it was barely recognizable as a 28....a ball of rust! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif be interesting to see pix, though! john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian Posted November 19, 2006 Report Share Posted November 19, 2006 QUOTE (TD. @ Nov 15 2006, 09:52 PM) I am not a scuba diver and know very little about this hobby. However, I would think that most of the transport ships sank by German U-Boats carrying supplies to England and Europe would have been in very deep water. don't know much about the battle of the atlantic do you? in the early days it was a turkey shoot over here for the u boats, with many many ships being sunk with in sight of land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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