Ron A Posted August 9, 2004 Report Share Posted August 9, 2004 Just listed on Ebay a parts box #2261645838 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMG28 Posted August 9, 2004 Report Share Posted August 9, 2004 I am not certain whether it is fake or original, because I don't have sufficient experience with the real McCoy, but it is NOT one of Gordon's boxes. It is made differently from his. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted August 9, 2004 Report Share Posted August 9, 2004 It is a slick ad. The seller doesn't know anything about it except that his friend brought it back from Ireland. Since the Colt TSMG's that wound up in IRA hands were smuggled into the country (except the ones that were discovered before leaving the U.S.), it gives a certain aura of legitimacy, even though one wonders if the smugglers would have bothered with such an obscure accessory. Of the two types I have seen, it doesn't resemble either of them. And of course the contents in the ad are not what would have been included in the original package. But another man's repo box is as good as GH's. Maybe the extra patina and accessories are driving the price, but if it goes into four figures, somebody is taking a lot for granted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 I took a look at the ad. My observations with the limited angle of the photos are: I see no latch on either the top or bottom half of the box. Top half should half a protrusion where a spring latch fits in from the lower half. I see a breech brush and it is a relationship to the length of the kit. In my original and pictures I have of other originals the breech brush is a tighter fit length wise. With the limited photos my conclusion is that this is not an original. I noted that the bidding is over $600, yikes. michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Iannamico Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 My .02 On the Colt era boxes the lid and the bottom of the box are the same size (width). On the box shown on ebay the lid is smaller than the bottom portion of the box. It was great to see everyone at the TCA shoot! Thanks? for the beer(s). Frank I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Jr Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 What kind of a jackass would list the damn little tin box and show it with a carry case and all those mags and then not include them in the auction? I have half a mind to report the auction to ebay after reading that. http://www.cswnet.com/~luther/boxandstuff.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobra81 Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 It might be an original kit, but without out some better pictures it's impossible to tell. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 All of the Guns that went to Ireland, including most of the Rorke guns from the Eastside shipment were made in 1921 and shipped well before the tin spare parts boxs were manufactured in September 1928. How ever I have seen a simliar tin to the E-bay one listed at the SAR show last year and it was a WW2 Military spare parts tin. The dealer wanted $800.00 for it. It was not a 1928 tin. My 2 cents worth. Regards Murray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 Murray, Many of the nearly 500 Rorke Colt TSMG's arrived in Ireland long after the botched attempt to smuggle the initial shipment out on June, 1921. One of the captured IRA guns (#2646) didn't even roll off the assembly line until July, 1922, and wasn't sold by Auto-Ord-Co until sometime around 1928. Americans sympathetic to the IRA cause, continued to arrange for arms (among them TSMG's) to be smuggled into Ireland long after 1928. But I agree that outfitting the guns with spare parts boxes does not seem likely considering these clandestine operations. But I was wondering what source you used to fix the appearance of the spare parts box to September, 1928? That would tend to make the introduction of PD cases improbable until after that date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIONHART Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 QUOTE (Ron A @ Aug 9 2004, 02:43 PM) Just listed on Ebay a parts box #2261645838 It's a fake... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Posted August 12, 2004 Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 Arthur, Letter of April 25th, 1928 to Oscar Payne from General Thompson suggesting a metal spare parts box to replace the canvas ones with which the US Marines in Nicuaragua and China were having problems with them rotting. One month later,May 1928 Oscar Payne replied that he was working on the drawings of the "kit box". By July 16th 1928 the first sample metal box was sent to Colt's for blueing. On September 22, 1928 Worcester Press Steel Co quoted $41.55 for runs of 1000 plus $1,113.00 in tooling charges.with delivery in six to nine weeks. First delivery was in October/ November the first 1000 were produced. Thus I estimate the first boxes appeared towards the end of 1928. The metal spare parts kit first appears in the 1929 AO Catalogue. . The drawing by Oscar Payne is dated 9/11/1928 and shows a box identical to the one we all know as the one with the metal rim ridge aound the centre of the box. The one on ebay, in my opinion, is a fake. Regards Murray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Jr Posted August 12, 2004 Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 QUOTE On September 22, 1928 Worcester Press Steel Co quoted $41.55 each on runs of 1000 plus $1,113.00 in tooling HOW MUCH? 41.55 EACH??? http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/blink.gif That HAS to be a typo. I wouldn't pay that for one today! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/blink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Posted August 12, 2004 Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 Woops sorry, For runs of 1000 each. See my edited post. Murray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig Posted August 12, 2004 Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 What amazes me is that the bidding has gone higher on this item to now $700. Obviously a bidder not reading these posts. Another observation of this kits non-originality I made. If you look at the kit in the mazazine pouch part of the canvas gun case, you can see it does not fit like the mags in the same photo. An original metal spare would fit the same as an XX mag where the design was made to slip into a canvas mag carrier. michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Posted August 12, 2004 Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 Michael, Yours is an interesting observation about the bidders not reading this post when one considers that there has been nearly 500 views on this post so far. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/huh.gif I also agree with your view about it not fitting the mag pouch correctly. Kind regards Murray. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig Posted August 13, 2004 Report Share Posted August 13, 2004 And news from the truly amazing world of Evilbay. The bidding continues higher now up to $720 for this item. What is that saying if it is too good to be true it probably isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt21a Posted August 14, 2004 Report Share Posted August 14, 2004 fellow t.g.guy's........i happen to find the pic of it.i purchased a illinois state thompson years ago,in the case came the same exact kit.i sold the whole rig to lomont. and i can at least guarantee its non-originality to the real deal.and since i had six of them i guess i would know a little what to look for. maybe the sprung out of someplace in illinois........because it was in the hardcase lid when i bought the gun.........so i am sure probably somebody had some made up......and i am positive it did not come with any irish sword out of ireland...... unless it was taped on the end of enfield.wink!! i think the value at the time i put on it was $100.00{because i had never seen a copy before}and at that time was into thompson's for 20 years and never seen a replica...............anyway bid away.the winner will not be happy.....but he can always tell the tale of how he got it on e-bay............ha-ha!! take care,ron please guys don't buy it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred Posted August 14, 2004 Report Share Posted August 14, 2004 I am new to the Thompson field, at least compared to some of you guys. I do remember seeing, in a book, phamplet or somewhere else, a picture showing the metal kit box similar to the one on Evilbay. It was stated as a reproduction and I distinctly remember noticing that the seam between upper and lower was not an even split like on the original, but the lid looked like a sheetmetal lid and just covered the top of the box with a small lip. I cannot remember where I saw it. Maybe someone else has seem the image that I saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Posted August 14, 2004 Report Share Posted August 14, 2004 Fred, You are quite correct. Page 9 of issue 151 4th Qtr 2003 of the Thompson Collectors Asso., news letter shows a very good picture of the same tin as you describe as an example of a fake tin. There is also a very good write up on the history of the spare parts tin. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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