This should be interesting to watch-1923 Colt

[Got Uzi]

Got the email bout the RIA auction listings being up for the auction in May. This caught my attention rather quickly. Be interesting to see its final hammer.

 

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/82/1549/thompson-1923-prototype-submachine-gun

[StrangeRanger]

There are 10 Colt's Thompsons and 9 various AOC, Savage and WH guns (including some WH SBRs) in that auction. It could be very interesting

[CptCurl]

Got the email bout the RIA auction listings being up for the auction in May. This caught my attention rather quickly. Be interesting to see its final hammer.

 

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/82/1549/thompson-1923-prototype-submachine-gun

 

 

Tracie mentions #2970 on page 153 of The Ultimate Thompson Book.

 

Curl

[2t2]

The 1923 is really cool, but not a hundred grand +BP cool.

[johnsonlmg41]

There may be some guns that don't make reserve prices this time around? Looks like a "well known" collector is thinning the herd? Don't forget to add sales tax to the BP!! Imagine bidding from TN, it could be break even to buy a condo in MT

[TD.]

Given the fact the barrel on NO 2970 seems to be identical to the barrels found on documented Model of 1923 Thompson guns, i.e., NO 2594 - Denmark, NO 3075 - France and NO 1605 - Russia, there is little doubt NO 2970 was assembled as part of the Auto-Ordnance Model of 1923 program. This program was also responsible for the introduction of the now rare .45 Remington-Thompson cartridge. Apparently, NO 2970 was provided to Hercules Powder Company as a test bed for this new cartridge but not as a complete Model of 1923 Thompson gun as referenced above. I find it amazing NO 2970 was not converted back to a standard Model of 1921 Thompson submachine gun when the development of the .45 Remington-Thompson cartridge ended or was abandoned. That said, I do wonder about the magazine included with NO 2970. I believe an original magazine for this gun should be one of the very rare blank shot type magazines as referenced on page 598 of The Ultimate Thompson Book. Were the blank shot magazines, for lack of a better term, originally made for the development of the shot cartridge or for the .45 Remington-Thompson cartridge? I don't know. But I would not want to send NO 2970 to Hercules Powder with an elongated magazine that stated, "FOR SHOT CARTRIDGES." If I was seriously interested in NO 2970, I would definitely want some pictures of the magazine to learn which of the three types of shot cartridge magazines are included with this gun. I would really be disappointed (and suspicious of a change sometime in the past) if the magazine is the 3rd variation or most common type of shot magazine.

 

Those with my Amateur's Guide book can view the pictures of NO 2594 and NO 3075 and compare to NO 2970 - pages 30/31. I did not include pictures of NO 1605 because the museum in Russia wanted $500 for a picture. Ouch!!! A forum member later provided me with a published picture of NO 1605 and the barrel does appear identical to NO 2970. As a side note, the barrel on Model of 1923 NO 3079 at the West Point Museum is different than the barrel on NO 2970 as are the barrels on NO 3268 and NO 3223 pictured in a Doug Richardson book. Different variations of the Model of 1923 are to be expected (and noted) as Auto-Ordnance was trying to make a saleable product with the vast inventory on hand.

 

NO 2970 is a one of a kind Thompson gun with some great provenance to an Auto-Ordnance program that has generated a lot of discussion and disagreements over the years. It would be the centerpiece of most advanced collections. But I agree with 2t2. 100K plus BP - that seems a stretch...but what do I know!

 

Edit: added the word "magazine"

Edited March 21, 2021 by TD.

[Ryo]

Just want to note that if you need photos of this.. Contact RIA and specifically let them know what you want. They actually take the time to do so.. Well at least for me a few auctions ago.

[TD.]

Just a quick update for my above post. I have been informed by two very knowledgeable members of the Thompson community who are familiar with NO 2970 that there was no magazine included when it transferred from Hercules Powder. Unless additional information surfaces, we may never know the type of magazine included with NO 2970 when sent to Hercules Powder by Auto-Ordnance on July 16, 1921 (page 144, TUTB). That said, if I was an interested bidder, I would still want pictures of the magazine now included with NO 2970.