Seller mailed wrong form

[mnshooter]

Bought a Thompson via Gunbroker from a well known dealer/store.

 

Dealer has cashed my full payment check, and was supposed to send me the form 4's for my completion, signoff, and mailing to ATF.

But now, the day after he cashed the check, he says he already mailed my form 4s, along with his check, to ATF, by mistake.

He also sold a Thompson to a board member last month, so someone else doing the paperwork could have gotten things mixed up.

He says he has sent a "recall notice" to ATF to get the form back.

 

I have yet to see a form 4 application for transfer of this gun to me.

He doesn't have my photo, print cards, or CLEO signoff, so he didn't mail my form, but might have my name listed as the transferee. Or maybe my name is on a form for a different gun. Don't know.

 

Does anyone know if there is any "recall" process for this?

 

As far as I can determine, his transfer payment check will get deposited without anyone really looking at the forms, which will get sent on for "pending", then a few months later, an examiner's assistant will go through the application, discover what is wrong, and return the forms to the seller. This will be 3 to 4 months, minimum, but would not add to the total transfer approval time, provided the corrected forms are returned promptly.

 

Am I better off to let the above process occur, or insist he send new form 4's to me immediately so I can complete them and know the transfer process is underway?

 

I am not going public beyond this forum; I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

Edited February 22, 2014 by mnshooter

[jim c 351]

mnshooter,

You have my sympathy.

Who is this well known, incompetent dealer. He doesn't deserve protection.

I would guess that your best bet would be to submit all the proper forms along

with the dealers check for $200. This time you mail them in.

When the incorrect forms surface they can be cancelled and the $200.00 refunded.

Best of luck.

Jim C

[mattnh]

From your description, I'll assume the dealer is doing an in-state transfer to your (or facilitating one)

and he isn't doing an F3 to your designated dealer in your state.

 

If so, your best bet is to just submit totally new paperwork and the tranferor can wait for his

refund on the messed-up paperwork... I would submit a letter with the new

paperwork explaining the situation...

 

Before doing anything, ask the dealer to send you a scan of what he actually submitted.

 

IMHO, doesn't sound all that bad (so long as the dealer is being open and communicative.

Good luck.

[bbcode3]

I have been a dealer for 9+ years and this is the first time I have ever heard of a "recall notice".

 

I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but I imagine I would have heard of it by now. Maybe someone with more time in the biz can

chime in if they have heard of some official recall notice. If I had to guess, there's a form for that.

 

I would ask your dealer to put an immediate STOP PAYMENT on the check. I bet that would at least stop the pending transfer

and allow you to send off a new/correct one. I seriously doubt ATF will do any work on the form if the check doesn't clear in the first place.

 

Here is the process: 1)mail the form; 2) check gets cashed (usually within 1 week) at some bank in GA, 3) it's mailed from Atlanta to Martinsburg, WV; 4) it sits in a pile for a few months until some contractor enters the form and it goes "pending" (about 4 months in); 5) an official examiner gets the forms 8 months after you mailed them and they put it at the bottom of their stack; 6) your form gets approved around 10 months after mailed off.....

 

I encourage to go the trust route and have your dealer eFile the form. Those are taking 3-4 months these days......not 10-11 months.

 

Good luck buddy

 

 

 

 

 

Bought a Thompson via Gunbroker from a well known dealer/store.

 

Dealer has cashed my full payment check, and was supposed to send me the form 4's for my completion, signoff, and mailing to ATF.

But now, the day after he cashed the check, he says he already mailed my form 4s, along with his check, to ATF, by mistake.

He also sold a Thompson to a board member last month, so someone else doing the paperwork could have gotten things mixed up.

He says he has sent a "recall notice" to ATF to get the form back.

 

I have yet to see a form 4 application for transfer of this gun to me.

He doesn't have my photo, print cards, or CLEO signoff, so he didn't mail my form, but might have my name listed as the transferee. Or maybe my name is on a form for a different gun. Don't know.

 

Does anyone know if there is any "recall" process for this?

 

As far as I can determine, his transfer payment check will get deposited without anyone really looking at the forms, which will get sent on for "pending", then a few months later, an examiner's assistant will go through the application, discover what is wrong, and return the forms to the seller. This will be 3 to 4 months, minimum, but would not add to the total transfer approval time, provided the corrected forms are returned promptly.

 

Am I better off to let the above process occur, or insist he send new form 4's to me immediately so I can complete them and know the transfer process is underway?

 

I am not going public beyond this forum; I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

[mnshooter]

Thanks to you also, Brandon.

The use of the word "recall" may have only been that person's choice of word; probably has no meaning to ATF.

Whatever forms he did mail had nothing to do with my actual transfer; he should correct that separately.

I will wait a few more days to see if he comes through with my correct forms; after that, time to get more affirmative.

[darrylta]

Sounds screwy to me, it would me very informative to know the dealers name?

What ever bad publicity he gets is earned by his incompetence.

Thanks,

Darryl

[car wash chris]

That SUCKS ! I'm with the others, re-do the paper work right send it in and when they send back the wrong transfer paper work kill it and let the second one transfer. His mistake let him wait for his $200 refund. Good luck Chris

[Robert Henley]

He managed to cash your full payment check without any problem, so he's not too incompetent. This is another good reason why full payment up-front can be problematic. It doesn't matter whether the seller does what he is suppose to do once he gets your money.

 

How can anyone submit Form 4s with no CLEO sign off, no fingerprint cards, no photos, along with a check for $200, unless he agreed to pay the tax. If it wasn't a "well known" (I assume reputable) dealer I think I would be worried about my money. What about send me my money back and when you get the transfer paperwork straightened out I'll send you the money back. Otherwise, I agree with others to submit the corrected paperwork along with the letter of explanation.

[wwiifirearms]

As I understand it, A transferee can cancel a transfer anytime before the physical transfer happens, even after the forms are approved. I don't think this is a huge problem. I would call NFA customer service and explain what happened, ideally with the dealer on the call with you. I'm betting you can just go ahead and send in your papers, and the dealer can send a letter canceling the paperwork he sent. Assuming this is all just an honest mistake, I wouldn't be too worried.

[mnshooter]

Thank You all for your thoughts on this matter.

The seller did send the correct form 4's to me. I have mailed them to BATFE.

I have reason to believe his incorrect mailing involved the other 28 sold in the previous month to a board member.

Although I have PM'd this member, asking if he knew anything about this, and how was his purchase going, he has not replied.

The seller originally said he had no problem with my sending a contract for his signature.

I am still waiting for the contract; his last message said he would send it when he got it back from his attorney.

I was probably wrong in thinking that due to the large number of Gunbroker sales from this well known store in Las Vegas, I could send payment prior to receiving the contract from the store owner/seller.

However, though it is fortunate that Gunbroker is involved, as they have a well defined set of rules for both parties, they also require prompt payment, so I was not sure of my ground with them in waiting too long before I sent the check.

Once I have the contract, I will post the sellers name and store here.

Thanks again to everyone.

[Robert Henley]

I've found from my experience that the issue of a buyer/seller agreement is a tricky issue. I had one board member, who happens to be an attorney, advise me that I didn't need one as long as I had some type of confirmation of the transaction (like an e-mail exchange) with the details, with a primary problem being some sellers just don't like to fool around with formal contracts. I've found that to be true, at least in my experience. I've sent sellers a buyer/seller agreement, and while I was fooling around with it the seller would sell the gun to someone else (no doubt without any formal contract). From a sellers perspective, why mess with it if you've got other buyers. The last NFA item I bought I skipped a contract and just bought the gun as advised above. It was a C&R transaction (person to person) and couldn't have gone smoother. So I think it all depends on the seller and establishing some level of confidence based on the communications with the seller.

 

It sounds like everything is working out for you. You'll have to give us your assessment after you receive the gun.

[mnshooter]

I've found from my experience that the issue of a buyer/seller agreement is a tricky issue. I had one board member, who happens to be an attorney, advise me that I didn't need one as long as I had some type of confirmation of the transaction (like an e-mail exchange) with the details, with a primary problem being some sellers just don't like to fool around with formal contracts. I've found that to be true, at least in my experience. I've sent sellers a buyer/seller agreement, and while I was fooling around with it the seller would sell the gun to someone else (no doubt without any formal contract). From a sellers perspective, why mess with it if you've got other buyers. The last NFA item I bought I skipped a contract and just bought the gun as advised above. It was a C&R transaction (person to person) and couldn't have gone smoother. So I think it all depends on the seller and establishing some level of confidence based on the communications with the seller.

 

It sounds like everything is working out for you. You'll have to give us your assessment after you receive the gun.

Thanks.

I will be doing that.

 

I have used this contract for most purchases with no problems.

My attorney/shooting partner/ex-Marine strongly advises one.

It just spells out who is selling what, to who, for how much.

In the event the purchase becomes a matter of an estate for either party, it would make things very clear for the executor.

The seller did email saying it was fine with him if I wanted him to sign a contract. Still waiting.