Building a Display Gun

[mnshooter]

im going to engrave the serial numbers on my display receiver this weekend, both upper and lower, does anyone know what the character height was on the serial numbers.i thought I saw something on that detail in the big hill book but wasn't sure.im going to do the Dillinger numbers,but if one day I or someone else want to make a functional post sample , will that be a problem with 2 thompsons with matching numbers?

You could have the same serial number.

A post sample will be in the manufacturer/SOT's name and in any case never be on the registry.

For that matter, why not make it serial no. 1?

Now that would be unique.

Edited December 6, 2014 by mnshooter

[Paladin601]

may I give my .02 cents worth on applying the stamp, use an arbor press to apply, so it does not bounce. Oh, and have the stamp put on a metal handle so the arbor press won't crack it.

[shadycon]

Hydrolic press?

[TD.]

MARK2112,

I believe Board member ron_brock sums things up pretty well. I encourage you to follow his advice.

[MARK2112]

Ok......no stamps made......ill leave it as made by richardson and call it a day.

[bug]

Not all Colts had the JHB proof. You'll have one of them...

[reconbob]

Hold on here guys. You've bullied Mark into abandoning his quest for detail on a DUMMY gun.

Telling him he should make the stamp the wrong size, then telling him he should destroy the stamp

and somehow document that he has done so after marking his one dummy gun? This is the

pendulum swinging way too far the other way. Do you have any idea how arrogant you sound?

JHB stamps are already out there as are GeG stamps. A member of this board made a semi-auto

Thompson and for realism engraved the JHB and GeG. You better hunt him down to make sure he

destroyed his pantograph or burned the computer program he used. Many of the cheap dummy

aluminum and steel receivers (sold for about $250) have the JHB and GeG. Are you going to hunt

those manufacturers down too and require that they certify they destroyed their tooling? Maybe you

should get their records so you find all their customers and make sure they don't think their JHB

marked aluminum receiver is an original authentic Thompson.

When this topic first appeared I thought it was going to be a dud that would fall to the back pages

in a week. But it has been one of the most popular and most viewed topics in recent memory. I was

wrong - there is a lot of interest in dummy or display guns. Not everyone (me included) can afford

a Colt Thompson. Not everyone lives where they can own a Thompson, But that does not diminish

their enthusiasm for the history and the hobby. And bullying Mark just sends a "peasants need not

apply" message which does not help anything.

If I have missed something here, tell me. What harm, what fakery can be perpetrated by Mark

making and owning a JHB stamp? Unmarked dummy receivers will now be marked JHB and thought

to be original Colt Thompsons? West Hurleys will be marked JHB and thought to be original

Thompsons?

I am not advocating fakery, but in this case I see no harm. Mark - make your stamp and mark your

DUMMY gun and enjoy what you have created, I admire your attention to detail. You make

Leonardo DaVinci look like Bozo the Clown....

 

Bob

Edited December 6, 2014 by reconbob

[mnshooter]

Right on Bob.

It's a dummy, at most a future sample gun. Do whatever you want to it. Serial No. 1.

Even if I had the skill to paint a copy of the Mono Lisa holding a Thompson (See -Whistlers Mother),

it would never be in the Louvre.

Edited December 6, 2014 by mnshooter

[MARK2112]

Well said bob,thanks for the support.

when im done with this project this will be the display everyone talks about.Im having thompsonbarrels make me one of his legendary hand inletted custom stands.which will say" COLT MODEL OF 1921".and dan will do me a complete set of aged furniture.Im having a place in minnesota micro weld the AO numbers in the lower .and will engrave the colt numbers top and bottom.one of these days ill find a commercial savage or colt mag release to eliminate that pesky hole.When shes completed ill have a pro photographer shoot some high re photos of what a good display should look like.

[ThompsonCrazy]

Bravo Bob! Well said.

 

To discourage this board member from trying to build an accurate replica the way that has been done in this thread is...... bite tongue.

 

Let's build a Boss 429 and not put the emblems on it. .... sure!

 

To be concerned about a Mills, Rusco, USMC ink stamp on web gear is one thing. Unmarked fbi cleaning rods and spare parts tin box, understandable.

 

An inspector's stamp on a dummy receiver that is not in the registry? Even if it was. ..... Fly fishing anyone?

 

TC

[laurencen]

Mark, looking forward to seeing the pictures, any you want to share of progress?

[MARK2112]

Ive always had issues downloading photos here,i use photobucket for my .url and its been dicey lately.

[MARK2112]

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k602/markedward2112/IMAG1438.jpgthe lower receiver,notice the switches!!!

Edited December 6, 2014 by MARK2112

[MARK2112]

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k602/markedward2112/IMG_0005-3.jpgthe beginning,notice the unissued rear sight in the box,that aint no re-pro either.this was taken the day before bluing.the wood is all nos savage.the buttstock was still wrapped in paper when i got it off ebay.the rear buttplate has alot of nickel in it and was a b***h to blue.had to turn the heat up to 385º to get it to take.it now has that colt polished sheen to it.if you reblue these parts you can buff out the blueing with wadded up newspaper to make it look more "colt translucent".

Edited December 6, 2014 by MARK2112

[MARK2112]

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k602/markedward2112/IMG_0008-1.jpghttp://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k602/markedward2112/IMG_0001-25.jpgthis is the box that the rear sight came in,can anyone tell me about it.heres the upper and lower that i had to "lap to fit"

Edited December 6, 2014 by MARK2112

[mnshooter]

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k602/markedward2112/IMAG1438.jpgthe lower receiver,notice the switches!!!

Nice.

 

It looks like the safety is knurled, and not cut checkering. Kahr?

A non-checkered safety can be drilled and checkered to more closely copy the Colt.

PK does this, and can also fill the hole in your safety and recut the lines.

 

Given your most casual interest in accuracy, you could add that to your list of options.

[MARK2112]

Yes kahr,the only thing close i could find anywhere at any price.......maybe a forum member could help a brother out....hint hint...lol

PK would be nice but waiting a year is out of the question,ill find one eventually at a gun show.ive seen them before but never had a gun to put them on.

[ron_brock]

Hold on here guys. You've bullied Mark into abandoning his quest for detail on a DUMMY gun.

Telling him he should make the stamp the wrong size, then telling him he should destroy the stamp

and somehow document that he has done so after marking his one dummy gun? This is the

pendulum swinging way too far the other way. Do you have any idea how arrogant you sound?

JHB stamps are already out there as are GeG stamps. A member of this board made a semi-auto

Thompson and for realism engraved the JHB and GeG. You better hunt him down to make sure he

destroyed his pantograph or burned the computer program he used. Many of the cheap dummy

aluminum and steel receivers (sold for about $250) have the JHB and GeG. Are you going to hunt

those manufacturers down too and require that they certify they destroyed their tooling? Maybe you

should get their records so you find all their customers and make sure they don't think their JHB

marked aluminum receiver is an original authentic Thompson.

When this topic first appeared I thought it was going to be a dud that would fall to the back pages

in a week. But it has been one of the most popular and most viewed topics in recent memory. I was

wrong - there is a lot of interest in dummy or display guns. Not everyone (me included) can afford

a Colt Thompson. Not everyone lives where they can own a Thompson, But that does not diminish

their enthusiasm for the history and the hobby. And bullying Mark just sends a "peasants need not

apply" message which does not help anything.

If I have missed something here, tell me. What harm, what fakery can be perpetrated by Mark

making and owning a JHB stamp? Unmarked dummy receivers will now be marked JHB and thought

to be original Colt Thompsons? West Hurleys will be marked JHB and thought to be original

Thompsons?

I am not advocating fakery, but in this case I see no harm. Mark - make your stamp and mark your

DUMMY gun and enjoy what you have created, I admire your attention to detail. You make

Leonardo DaVinci look like Bozo the Clown....

 

Bob

Bob,

While I highly respect your input I do not appreciate a label of arrogance. The only Thompson I own is a Russian parts kit with a crappy aluminum receiver and an MGC so believe me arrogance is not the right label.

 

My reason for suggesting modifying or destroying the stamp has nothing to do with Mark's receiver. Thats his project and he can do whatever he wishes. What I was hoping to avoid was having an exact duplicate stamp floating around that could be used to freshen up some stamp on a registered Colt that may have had some slight polishing to remove those ugly pits. Certainly no fraud in that and a fresh coat of blue just makes it look nicer.

Every other collectible market has been damaged by reproductions, restorations and fraud why should Thompsons be any different. I am sure those that have shelled out big cash for those Mills parts bags don't mind after finding out the history on these.

 

Let's keep the mud on the ground and look forward to seeing your pics Mark.

Ron

[Paladin601]

Mark, I believe Damien at Tommygunner.com will also do the checkering on the levers

Edited December 7, 2014 by Paladin601

[reconbob]

Ron - I was not aware that my use of the word "arrogant" rose to the level of "mud". I apologize.

However, you did tell him how he should make his stamp (oversize}, how many times he could use

it {once) and what he should do with it when he was finished (destroy it).

 

What is your position on something like remanufacturing GI mag catches into Colt mag catches

with no hole? There are a couple guys doing this on a regular basis - I am sure many dozens have

been converted. Has there been a recommendation that these counterfeit catches be made oversize

or different, and reports issued as to how to identify them? If so, I have not seen it. Do the

individuals doing this conversion mark the remade catches in such a way that they will never be

thought to be original? I don't know. If its a good job, I don't know that I'd be able to tell an

original from a re-do. These re-made mag catches, apparently, are lucky enough to be thought of

as "enhancements". Meanwhile poor Mark's JHB stamp is such a hazard that it should be destroyed.

Doesn't make sense to me...

 

Bob

[TD.]

reconbob,

I can only speak for the fire control levers and magazine catch modified by PK to have the Colt's era appearance on my 1928 West Hurley. PK does not remove the GI manufacturer markings. The history of these parts are easily identified.

[MARK2112]

Does anybody have info on the boxed rear sight......who is G DEMBECK?

It has all the correct markings and is most likely a '28 lymann.i dont believe its a repro.and did they put buttstock sling swivels on the '21 or overstamps?

Has anyone had a chance to see dave at thompsonbarrels.com gun stands.of all the ways ive seen to hold this weapon his is by far the most innovative.i hope this project brings him more buisness.

 

if anyone has an authentic mag catch or safty switch they want to "unload"......ive got cash money I'd like to have one,even if it's a PK.

once i get dans wood i may sell my complete savage NOS set.not a ding anywhere and all the lines still crisp.ill make my decision once his wood gets in my hands.

[ron_brock]

Ron - I was not aware that my use of the word "arrogant" rose to the level of "mud". I apologize.

However, you did tell him how he should make his stamp (oversize}, how many times he could use

it {once) and what he should do with it when he was finished (destroy it).

 

What is your position on something like remanufacturing GI mag catches into Colt mag catches

with no hole? There are a couple guys doing this on a regular basis - I am sure many dozens have

been converted. Has there been a recommendation that these counterfeit catches be made oversize

or different, and reports issued as to how to identify them? If so, I have not seen it. Do the

individuals doing this conversion mark the remade catches in such a way that they will never be

thought to be original? I don't know. If its a good job, I don't know that I'd be able to tell an

original from a re-do. These re-made mag catches, apparently, are lucky enough to be thought of

as "enhancements". Meanwhile poor Mark's JHB stamp is such a hazard that it should be destroyed.

Doesn't make sense to me...

 

Bob

Bob,

No worries. Using a words that make it personal is a move away from the technical discussion hence my terminology of mud slinging. Mark asked for the dimensions to make an accurate stamp, my comment was merely to change the size like say 0.100 larger and comment on that in the board about it. Would anyone notice that detail? 98% seeing this display gun will have no idea what the stamp is anyway and ask if it's a live gun. Destroying it was an attempt to not have it on eBay to be sold to less than honest folks. That's all.

These small changes just help to keep things cleaner in the future. As you mention others do not bother with this and I do not expect to change the world was just offering some ideas.

 

Mark, I love the pics so far and I suspect the name on your sight box was for the person ordering the part hard to say for sure. Best of luck on the rest of your project.

Ron

[TD.]

MARK2112,

The fire control levers on your frame appear to be early Savage. The knurling has the diamonds pointed in. The knurling on Colt levers has the diamonds pointed out, like checkering. PK can checker a set of flat control levers (and drill the proper hole in the safety) and fill the hole in the magazine catch in less than a year. This is work he fits in to his days. He modified my levers and magazine catch in about 6 weeks. A quick e-mail to him for a general time frame would be the way to go. You cannot be in a hurry but it should be less than a year. Do not have PK modify those knurled levers. Early Savage levers are collectible in their own right.

 

Open the blade of the Lyman rear sight and shoot a picture straight down so the all of the markings are very clear and visible. Perhaps then, you will learn more about this rear sight "in the box." Agree with Ron on the name; it probably means nothing today.

[MARK2112]

The JHB stamp is 100.00,ill use it once and see if a forum member wants it for their display.....i will not sell it on ebay.i recently sold to a forum member a colt buffer assembly for 200.00,richardson tells me its worth 500.00.i could have sold it on the bay for twice that but i wanted it to go back into a colt.im just trying to figure out if i should cnc machine in the stamp or not.and then white it in so i dont have to reblue the entire reciever again.im already going to have it in the machine for the serial number anyways so why spend an extra 100.00 if i can do it myself in my haas.doug has an early complete colt lower...... $5000.00......ouch