huggytree Posted May 19, 2018 Report Share Posted May 19, 2018 (edited) Ive been tracing my guns ownership history for 1.5 years now. Ive collected 3 original tax stamps and 1 photo copy, called every previous owner and made 1 page of text from each with their story of the gun.... Ive got the whole story from 1964 forward. My FOIA gave me enough info to work things in multiple ways (also thanks to Tom Davis for all his advice and help---he's told me how to do it)...My goal is to find out who owned the gun in 1940. My FOIA says it went to Troy NY, so i can prove its a Commercial Savage from that...but it also has a neat history from the 1964 owner. I tracked him down because my FOIA gave me the owners name. He is now dead, but i found the names of his children. There were 4-5 people with the same name in the USA, but i figured it out by guessing how old they would be and only 1 person fit. I tracked him on line to various places he worked and businesses he owned. He had moved on from all of them. I finally found him on Facebook and saw a army pic and knew he would be interested in talking to me. I saw he was a gun guy....weve been talking for a year+ through facebook about his dad and the gun. Today i got a packet from the son of the 1964 owner...he had been looking for it for over a year and found it last week! He purchased the gun in 1964 for $225!!! (today i think my guns value is $30,000+). He handed the gun over to the bank as collaterial in 1985 for $1500 (17% interest!!!) to help finance an invention. The invention failed and he never saw the gun again. In 1990 the S&L crisis in OK saw the bank fail and the owner took his illegally owned Thompson to a gun show to sell it...the Atf allowed a gun not registered to the bank to transfer it to a dealer.... Edited May 19, 2018 by huggytree 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandman1957 Posted May 19, 2018 Report Share Posted May 19, 2018 Huggy, good job running that down, very interesting.Cheers,Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted May 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2018 (edited) Sadly Potomac Arms corp went out of business in 2006, so i cannot trace it backwards further.... the 1964 owners son claimed his dad bought the Thompson right outside a military base at a police auction. So maybe the Troy, NY Police Dept sold it to Potomac?...ill never know i guess......could have been the Troy Sheriff or someone else in 1940 my last hold out is the dealer who bought it from the bank in 1990. I just got off the phone with him and he sounded more eager to help than in the past. Asked for my name and address again and said he would look. He is still a gun dealer and still has the form 4 im sure. It would be great to have the complete history...interesting stuff i tried to call the bank which reopened to discuss it and was hung up on in 1 second....ive got the bankers name, but its hard to read....im still hoping to get the last form 4 from 1990 and be able to call the banker to get his story TD has discussed calling the Troy,NY police dept to see if they have any record on my gun. Edited May 19, 2018 by huggytree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HHollow Posted May 19, 2018 Report Share Posted May 19, 2018 (edited) My AR10 was valued at $119 back in 1961. It was part of a shipment of 10 to Interarms to be used as samples. Several ended up eventually being sold by Neil Smith. Anyway, copies of the order, shipping, import permit docs were found in the Dutch factory (A.I.) files. http://oi58.tinypic.com/1zlpqnd.jpg Edited May 20, 2018 by HHollow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petroleum 1 Posted May 19, 2018 Report Share Posted May 19, 2018 Excellent work huggy!! Fascinating stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timkel Posted May 19, 2018 Report Share Posted May 19, 2018 Facinating history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bug Posted May 19, 2018 Report Share Posted May 19, 2018 Hey Hug, what is written on the receipt before Thompson. Looks like "comm." for commercial. Yes? Also, when was the picture of the two guns taken. Excellent detective work, BTW. Bob D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted May 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2018 (edited) the pic of the 2 guns is from last summer....right after i refinished my m1 garand i think it says COMM.also TD is still trying to figure out why Troy, NY needed 19+ Thompsons in 1940...sounds like there may be a story about my gun and who owned it from 1940-1964..........i think there's a 50/50 chance ill get the final form 4...with that ill get the bankers name and can contact him for his version of the bank story..right now all i have is the story of Heckarts son and the guy who bought it from the Banker....interesting how the bank can have an illegally possessed machine gun in their vault for 5 years.. check out this ATF letter from 1970! Edited May 20, 2018 by huggytree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted May 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2018 better scan of the receipt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petroleum 1 Posted May 20, 2018 Report Share Posted May 20, 2018 Thats funny Mr Heckart asking for permission to transport his thompson AFTER he already transported it to another state. He got a little lecture with the approval lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelkih Posted May 20, 2018 Report Share Posted May 20, 2018 Good job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSU Tiger Posted May 20, 2018 Report Share Posted May 20, 2018 Nice bit of dectective work. The $225 cost in 1964 would be the equal to $1800 today. http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojeep Posted May 20, 2018 Report Share Posted May 20, 2018 1960's Thompson prices. The owner of the local gunshop near me said he was picking up some guns at a Wholesaler's Warehouse and they had wooden Pallets with M1 style stacked on one and 1928 style on another.Obviously Military Surplus.M1 style $551928 style $65Plus the $200 Tax Stamp on each gun.Like the other person pointed out with Inflation it's over around $1,800 and that's going from theWholesalers to the Retailer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt21a Posted May 20, 2018 Report Share Posted May 20, 2018 The paper is the value today. Always has been,Great story and job well done on that quest. bought five NEW IN CRATE M1'S from Interarms, And sold them to Earl for $2,500 around 1976. and still made a few bucks. Inflation does not come into play with this stuff.200 at that time 1921 is less than $3,000.00 today. and they sell for $30 grand to start. GOV PAPER AND CONTROL. Bought new M-16'S FROM COLT for $985.00 back in the 80's.If still allowed to buy today w/o MAY19,1986 AROUND about $1,100.00 what happened to all that inflation from 1985 poof. GOV PAPER BALL CONTROL....................that is all it has ever been.Colt21a Ron huggy nice gun and paper trail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petroleum 1 Posted May 20, 2018 Report Share Posted May 20, 2018 The paper is the value today. Always has been,Great story and job well done on that quest. bought five NEW IN CRATE M1'S from Interarms, And sold them to Earl for $2,500 around 1976. and still made a few bucks. Inflation does not come into play with this stuff.200 at that time 1921 is less than $3,000.00 today. and they sell for $30 grand to start. GOV PAPER AND CONTROL. Bought new M-16'S FROM COLT for $985.00 back in the 80's.If still allowed to buy today w/o MAY19,1986 AROUND about $1,100.00 what happened to all that inflation from 1985 poof. GOV PAPER BALL CONTROL....................that is all it has ever been.Colt21a Ron huggy nice gun and paper trail.Everyone in this hobby knows what the 1986 Hughes act did to FA prices all the up to this day. Ron...i assume you have been in this for more years than you care to count but in your opinion why was the Hughes act dropped on the FA community?? Was there a specific event that triggered it?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt21a Posted May 20, 2018 Report Share Posted May 20, 2018 Evil Politicians. And all the talk since about amnesty and going back to changing it all. You will become a billionaire first and living on MARS. And there are a few left who remember 68 control act. I posted this as Truth. its the paper, and always has been since the start.We just play the game and dance to the tune. Colt 21a Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsonlmg41 Posted May 21, 2018 Report Share Posted May 21, 2018 Oh, come on Ron. Tell him the NRA threw NFA owners under the bus to garner a couple votes for the hughes amendment. On a crooked voice vote (you can watch the video on utube) the hughes amendment and the rest was passed, and with encouragement from the NRA Reagan signed it. Old Wayne is still there encouraging them now to ban bump fire stocks and other stuff (as history repeats itself) Now you know why many NFA owners want nothing to do with the NRA. They are solely responsible for today's NFA pricing and scarcity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt21a Posted May 21, 2018 Report Share Posted May 21, 2018 YEAH WE DID TAKE A BIG HIT THERE. And never forgave N.R.A. for it. Reagan he might have been into his early stage Dementia but nobody knew about it for many years later. It was a big cover up and never really researched at the time. yeah good times back to the coffee and smooth jazz. that's all I got. Colt21a Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSU Tiger Posted May 21, 2018 Report Share Posted May 21, 2018 (edited) I distinctly remember Reagan saying that “But I do believe that an AK-47, a machine gun, is not a sporting weapon or needed for defense of a home.” As Governor of California, he signed into law the Mulford Act which prohibited carrying or transporting loaded firearms. After leaving office, he backed passage of the Brady bill and pushed for the Assualt Weapons Ban of 1994 in a letter to Congress. I wouldn't exactly call him a friend of any type of firearm owner. I keep hoping that someone will sneak in an amendment to reverse the Hughes amendment, that and a couple of bucks will buy a cup of coffee. Edited May 21, 2018 by LSU Tiger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted May 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2018 Reagan maybe wasnt 100% the conservative Icon people thought he was...but he had a dem congress to work with, so he had to bend.....both Bush's i thought were more democrat than republican....glad we didnt get a 3rd... keep hoping the that repeal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
froster Posted June 3, 2018 Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 What was the retail price of Thompsons in the 20s and thirties on the civil market? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted June 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2018 i thought $200 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGMAN45 Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 I think you are right on the 200.00 price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted July 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 the best part was you could just grab one off the shelf of your local hardware store...here's my $200!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt21a Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 (edited) #167 The Hardware store gun.. There was a many hardware and gun shop Thompson. They just never did get documented like that one did. This stuff has been rehashed and repeated so many times.Like Hollywoods movie series. remake and repeat and stir it again.Just enjoy everyday you have with the stuff..And forget about all the repeated and useless regurgitated info. But hey that is the world of the internet.At one time you had to send letters make phone calls and travel. to maybe get misinformed. or informed today its a click away. ha ha And yes over $200 But Gangsters would pay upwards of over a $1,000.00 and more for B.A.R.'S. in the days of Bootleg. that amount did not hurt them at all. It was the cost of doing business. COLT21A RON also J.D. DAY JULY 22, Edited July 22, 2018 by colt21a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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