Carelessness ... Accidental Discharge

[JimB]

Okay something not brought up yet is allegedly some of the prop guns were being used during down time on the set for "target shooting"

Not only that, police found live ammo was found stored alongside theatrical blanks on set

 

These are just enormous No Nos

live fodder should NEVER be on a production set

 

one account of the situation was Gun girl had placed pistols on the cart, assistant director walks up, snags one saying Cold Gun as he passes it to Baldwin

Here's what's not at all clear

obviously it's going to be a .44-40 or .45LC revolver

someone explain to me how some Cowboy load passes through the dead girl stomach then does the magic bullet routine and ends up the the Assistant Directors shoulder.

To me that seems as though two rounds were fired

 

I have a bit of a hard time with a Cowboy load even fully passing through the midsection of a human body

I grew up using those rounds, shooting feral Dogs and the like

pass throughs were uncommon to say the least with lead projectiles, this isnt hard ball

 

Bullet angles are crazy too however before death the victim stated she couldnt feel her feet so maybe a clean spine hit and deflection but that would also further dump ballistic energy wouldnt it

 

One more thing to consider

Baldwin is notoriously abusive, particularly towards women

This Assistant Director has history as well apparently

 

all this played a big factor in why there was a walk out on the Rust set by members of the production crew citing unsafe conditions, etc

Could very well be they walked right over the gun girl, that would be in Baldwin's nature.

in ANY Case there should never have been live ammo Anywhere near the set

Edited October 25, 2021 by JimB

[Mike Hammer]

Not impressed with Hannah Reed, the way she presents herself I wouldn't trust her with a BB gun. So, not only is Baldwin the lead actor, (and the killer) in this fiasco, turns out that he is also the executive producer. I don't know if many of you know what that means but I can tell you. They are essentially in charge of everything that goes on in making the film, and it doesn't matter if you have hired underlings to do most of the work for you. that means that he is responsible for everyone hired in making this film and everything that goes on.

 

The facts of this debacle are still just dribbling out but he is in deep do-do even if someone didn't intend to harm this woman. Right now it's scurry time, all the rats are trying desperately to cover their behind. Even if this was a massive series of assembled negligence on many peoples part, Baldwin is entirely responsible for the death of this woman, you own that responsibility when you sign on as the producer.

[JimB]

Not impressed with Hannah Reed, the way she presents herself I wouldn't trust her with a BB gun. So, not only is Baldwin the lead actor, (and the killer) in this fiasco, turns out that he is also the executive producer. I don't know if many of you know what that means but I can tell you. They are essentially in charge of everything that goes on in making the film, and it doesn't matter if you have hired underlings to do most of the work for you. that means that he is responsible for everyone hired in making this film and everything that goes on.

 

The facts of this debacle are still just dribbling out but he is in deep do-do even if someone didn't intend to harm this woman. Right now it's scurry time, all the rats are trying desperately to cover their behind. Even if this was a massive series of assembled negligence on many peoples part, Baldwin is entirely responsible for the death of this woman, you own that responsibility when you sign on as the producer.

 

Well Mike she's what...like 23 ?

most girls tend to be somewhat silly still early 20s from personal experience

this current generation of young gals are often straight Goofy with the poison of social media.

 

One friend I have discussed this with stated on sets he worked on the guns are always double checked

Armorer prepares then, Director or AD often selects them then checks again before presenting to the actor

 

another point he made is Baldwin was not handed a "Hot" gun

Hot guns are loaded with blanks

nope he got a live gun with live ammo in it

 

I mean hells bells

SAAs dont have recessed chambers, you can glance at the side and see if there are at least cases in it

flip the loading gate, rotate cylinder

or do the same eyeballing the front of the chambers

there are just multiple levels of foul in what happened

 

and I remain of the opinion Baldwin actually shot twice

Edited October 25, 2021 by JimB

[Mike Hammer]

I will be playing a CIA agent in a film on Wednesday and Thursday , I will let you know how closely they follow the gun prerequisites for safety, hopefully Baldwin will not be anywhere near

[JimB]

I will be playing a CIA agent in a film on Wednesday and Thursday , I will let you know how closely they follow the gun prerequisites for safety, hopefully Baldwin will not be anywhere near

 

My personal speculation is dummy was handed a live firearm then attempted a fan to demonstrate

fired two rounds, one into the gal, the next under recoil into the AD who had previously handed him the gun

Two Shots

that accounts for a deadly gut shot and another in shoulder of the dipcraphole who passed him a live gun

 

massive fail all around

another point is for Hollyweird types, this was a Dude Ranch

the dead victim is seen ridings horseies during production

so yeah probably was some blasting at wine bottles

Happens all the time on rural Cowboy off sets

 

woman didnt CONTROL

AD didnt bother to check either

Producer Baldwin allowed all this

[StrangeRanger]

Jeffrey Wright's comments about safety protocols - or lack thereof - are illuminating

https://www.npr.org/2021/10/26/1049211806/hollywood-stars-say-they-are-stunned-by-mismanaged-set-in-fatal-prop-gun-shootin

[jl7422]

Very telling to me is the report that crew had walked off the production citing safety concerns. I am in this industry, and walking off a job for any reason is a VERY serious decision that is not taken lightly. Unfortunately, their decision was justified.

[Kilroy]

To OldTrooper, I am glad you are safe, I would’ve probably made fecal matter in my pants.

[Mike Hammer]

Baldwin is setting up his defense by stating he never pulled the trigger on the gun or pointed it at anyone. It must have been a "Magic Gun" that fires and points on it's own. I don't know if he's trying to claim temporary insanity by making such a stupid statement or if he really thinks that a member of the jury would actually buy his story. If so, that would probably make him the greatest actor in the world!

 

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/12/alec-baldwins-unbelievable-claim-negligent-homicide/

[StrangeRanger]

Mikle H,

Just for information's sake. Do they still use the 5-in-1 blanks that fit almost anything that looks like a 19th century SA revolver? IIRC they look absolutely nothing like a live round and could not possibly be mistaken for one.

[Mike Hammer]

Right, impossible to confuse a blank cartridge from a live round. At any rate, Baldwin never did the proper procedure to examine the gun cylinders with the armorer. He’s been around long enough to know that this is ALWAYS done before the actor accepts any kind of gun on set. This is a desperate attempt by his lawyer to try and introduce some flicker of doubt into his eventual trial.

[Oldtrooper]

Watching Baldwin's explanation about how the discharge happened, his argument is not without possible merit. If the single action revolver had been used for plinking as alleged, and if someone without knowledge of the old Colt SAA actions had reloaded the pistol with six cartridges and then failed to unload the weapon, then it is possible that Baldwin's explanation of how he just slightly pulled the hammer back and then released it from under his thumb without having his finger on the trigger could have caused the discharge. It doesn't take much force for the primer to fire ... Hence the old carry method of only having five chambers loaded with an empty under the hammer.

 

The firing pin on some reproductions is not much different than that showed here on my old colt, and still require an empty chamber under the hammer.

 

 

 

[DINK]

Only problem with Mr. Baldwin's theory is that the cylinder on a single-action won't rotate enough to bring a cartridge in position under the hammer until the hammer is drawn almost completely to the rear. Partially thumbing the hammer back won't rotate it far enough and the falling hammer should be caught by the half-cock notch if the trigger isn't being pulled to the rear. If we assume the mechanism of the revolver is working properly (and I'm sure it will be examined thoroughly), somebody had their fat little finger on the trigger when the gun went off.

 

The empty chamber carry of the old SAAs became popular because the half-cock notch isn't particularly strong and a powerful enough blow could shear it off and allow the firing pin to reach the primer. I'm not a horse person, but I have read that it was a problem when getting your horse ready to ride, as you flop the stirrup up on the saddle to get it out of the way while you are tightening the straps that go under the horse's belly. While you are heaving on them to get them tight, the stirrup would slip off the saddle and fall down on the back of your holstered Colt, causing a loud noise and a hole in your favorite boot. With an empty chamber under the hammer, you don't have to rely on the half-cock notch and you can beat on the hammer all day without causing and breakage of parts as the hammer is all the way down and resting on the frame.

[Mike Hammer]

I’m sure Baldwin, his lawyer, and whomever his “firearm expert” is that they hired for his defense cooked up this explanation in the hopes that it will create some doubt as to his guilt. And it just has hasn’t it. It sounds like the biggest load of manure that I’ve ever heard. Makes Biden sound like an amateur.

[inertord]

When someone has to call upon George Stephanopoulos to bolster a story, they have hit rock bottom.

[Mike Hammer]

Watching Baldwin's explanation about how the discharge happened, his argument is not without possible merit. If the single action revolver had been used for plinking as alleged, and if someone without knowledge of the old Colt SAA actions had reloaded the pistol with six cartridges and then failed to unload the weapon, then it is possible that Baldwin's explanation of how he just slightly pulled the hammer back and then released it from under his thumb without having his finger on the trigger could have caused the discharge. It doesn't take much force for the primer to fire ... Hence the old carry method of only having five chambers loaded with an empty under the hammer.

 

The firing pin on some reproductions is not much different than that showed here on my old colt, and still require an empty chamber under the hammer.

 

Firing Pin.jpg

Here is what I'm getting at, I knew this but this video explains why his explanation is pure nonsense.

[Oldtrooper]

Agreed ... He had to be holding the trigger back ... Probably why he said he did not "pull the trigger" ... It was already back.

[Ron Mills]

And we may never learn the truth on this one, who knows. Its tragic yes, but theres a logical explanation for everythingincluding this one. Ive had a hammer slip, fortunately on an empty chamber and cylinder.

[colt21a]

AS we know proven scumbags always scumbag. that is a known historical fact in history.He does not get to pass go and get 200 bucks he should get 20 years. hard labor. RON K.

[Mike Hammer]

Looks like Baldwin is finally going to have to face the music. Is he guilty of at least negligent homicide, oh hell yes along with the armorer. But his acting ability is so good that he may somehow put a doubt in a jurors mind and that's all it will take to get a free pass. He already bought off the civil suit now all he has to do is act stupid, and he doesn't even have to act for that to happen

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/alec-baldwin-charged-manslaughter-fatal-shooting-set-rust-d-says-rcna7189

[Rekraps]

On 7/20/2021 at 5:18 PM, Oldtrooper said:

Last week I had an experience that proves no matter how safe you are handling firearms it only takes a split second of carelessness for someone else to end things for you.

 

To make a long story short, a guy brought in a rifle to be worked on. He carried it in with no magazine in the weapon, and I asked him to make sure his weapon was clear as the bolt was forward. Before I could even react he replied "Oh, it's empty" and pulled the trigger. My head was two feet away from the muzzle blast of a 30 caliber round, which whizzed by me, through the ceiling and blew out a roof tile. If I could have recovered quickly enough, I would have wrapped his rifle around his neck. I suffered a concussion, and temporary hearing loss in my right ear.

 

I know it was an accident, but this illustrates that nothing can be taken for granted, and you cannot be too careful. A new sign on the door states that all bolts/actions must be open, in all weapons to enter.

 

The rifle owner still has not recovered from the shock of the accident ... He gave his rifle away the next day.

 

 

 

This is exactly why, after almost 50 years of gun collecting, shooting & more, I use chamber flags. The most dangerous are ruger .22's with the tube magazines. I am extra careful with them, but one time I came home from the range and was well into cleaning the gun when I discovered a round in the tube. 

Can never be too careful:

Barrel control

Finger control

NEVER point toward a person