huggytree Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 (edited) https://www.gunbroker.com/item/821926848 price seems off the charts...finish looks too good to be true this is the 3rd version of the S1928 correct? if its original finish I think it may be the nicest Thompson ive ever seen...still think its $10k over priced Edited July 17, 2019 by huggytree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securityinfo Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 Don't know for certain about the particular Thompson listed, but I can tell you that I have purchased some minty minty mint firearms from Tom... I think he must have a time machine somewhere. His collection is outstanding. /john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMGguy Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 Very nice gun. The seller is running that price up the flagpole to see if anyone salutes. He can always lower it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimcrew Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 Why is he calling it "Commercial"? I thought the commercial guns were the AO's made after the USG contract ended in early or mid-1944. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) #174805 is way out of the realm of a Commercial Savage. I thought the commercial guns were the AO's made after the USG contract ended in early or mid-1944. Rimcrew, Where did you read that? The West Hurley TSMG were not made until 1975. Not heard anyone ever refer to them as the "Commercial" Thompson Edited July 18, 2019 by Arthur Fliegenheimer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1921A Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) The term Savage Commercial has been discussed at length on this board but in general its a designation given by the collector community to early guns with Documented Police provenance. Neither Savage nor AOC ever used that term in any form Im aware of. These guns are usually numbered under s/n 25000 but a few have turned up with slightly higher numbers. They share some common features such as, New York, NY address instead of the later Bridgeport markings, a polished and bead blasted receiver with DuLite blue, bright blue barrels, Colt style controls and internals and frequently Remington wood. But the most important distinction is documentation showing direct domestic sale to a law enforcement agency. Without that provenance, its just an export version of the 1928. There is a second 1928 category commonly referred to as Commercial that are late model guns with L sights and some smooth barrels. These were apparently sold directly to law enforcement during and after production of the 1928 model. Most of these have been overstamped from 1928A1 to 1928AC. Again, unless there is documentation of direct factory sale to police its just a late model 28. This is just an opinion but its based on a lot of years dealing with Thompsons and the law enforcement community. Edited July 18, 2019 by 1921A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimcrew Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 Thanks for the clarification. I was indeed thinking of the 1928 AC guns. I thought an early Savage was just an early Savage, thought this gun may have too high a S/N to classify as "early". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimcrew Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) Rimcrew, Where did you read that? The West Hurley TSMG were not made until 1975. Not heard anyone ever refer to them as the "Commercial" Thompson Arthur - The only guns I had heard referred to as commercial, were the guns which were produced at the end of WWII,after the USG contract for production ended in 1944. The remaining parts were assembled, marked as 1928 AC, and sold to the public, or law enforcement institutions. I have much to learn... Edited July 18, 2019 by Rimcrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) Arthur - The only guns I had heard referred to as commercial, were the guns which were produced at the end of WWII,after the USG contract for production ended in 1944. The remaining parts were assembled, marked as 1928 AC, and sold to the public, or law enforcement institutions.Rimcrew, The WWII Auto-Ordnance Corporation TSMGs with the U.S. ground off and the "C" stamped over the "1" in "A1" making it an "AC" were sold to law enforcement as noted by Frank Iannamico. But this is not what Roger Cox was speaking of when he referenced the "Commercial Savage", a term that has continued to frustrate collectors to this day. The following characteristics are/were considered necessary to meet the standards of a "Savage Commercial." 1. Du-Lite Type III Black Oxide finish on the receiver with the blue barrel no proof marks2. Colt/Remington era wood/in the white latch3. # 2 Cutts Comp.4. No hole mag release5. Checkerd fire controll levers6. One-Piece Flat Machined Ejector7. Verticle front grip8. Patent dates not numbers9. Sold directly from AOC to a PD.10. New York Address11. In the white/nickle alloy(?) frame internals, bolt12. No domestic or foreign military markings Now there has been discrepancy regarding the serial number cutoff as well. If any Savage serial number, regardless if it is over 30,000, 60,000, 90,000, is a "Commercial" Savage as long as it was sold directly to a PD sans military markings, then forget the above criteria. Edited July 18, 2019 by Arthur Fliegenheimer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimcrew Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 Thanks Arthur, much appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thompsonteenager Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 its also on sturmgewehr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted July 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 He sold it i dont know who would pay Colt money for a Savage. He lists his guns for nutty prices often and it looks like he got it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reconbob Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 According to my scratch sheet a gun with that serial number would have beenmade in the summer of 1941. At that late date would it still qualify as a Savage"Commercial"? Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merry Ploughboy Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 To add further confusion to what is or is not a "Commercial Savage", the first TSMG I owned, but later sold, was unusual. The serial no. is S-340XYZ. The FOIA response shows a "Police" '68 Amnesty registration submitted Nov. 27, 1968.Unfortunately, I lost all my photos in a computer crash, so I'm describing from black and white printouts and the ad description I did before I sold it. The markings on the left side of the receiver do not include any military acceptance marks, and the U.S. prefix and A1 suffix appear to have been ground down before dulite bluing was applied. There are the typical Savage military era machining marks on the underlying metal. The barrel is finned and bright blued. It sports a Type 4 comp. The gun has a bright Savage bolt, a Lyman ladder sight, and a knurled actuator knob. The wood is typical Savage WWII. The trigger frame serial number matches the receiver. The selector and safety are the smooth, paddle type. Over the years I've seen one similar TSMG come up for sale. IIRC, that gun had a serial no. close to the one I had owned, and was described as "from a group of guns sold to a Connecticut Police Department". The ad pictures I had of that gun were also lost in the crash. MP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 He sold it i dont know who would pay Colt money for a Savage. He lists his guns for nutty prices often and it looks like he got it again. the auction ended on gunbroker. No bids still for sale on Sturmgewehr http://www.sturmgewehr.com/forums/index.php?/topic/14450-wts-thompsons-mp40-more-see-list/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 According to my scratch sheet a gun with that serial number would have beenmade in the summer of 1941. At that late date would it still qualify as a Savage"Commercial"? Bob The date of the application of the "Tommy Gun" mark on the top of the receiver adds further confusion. If the appearance of the stamp was the result of having to use it on receivers to satisfy requirements of the registration of the name "TOMMY" by AOC, that would put it at or after June 2, 1942. That pushes the sale, if not the manufacturing date, well beyond Lend Lease (mentioned in the ad) time period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted July 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 He sold it i dont know who would pay Colt money for a Savage. He lists his guns for nutty prices often and it looks like he got it again. the auction ended on gunbroker. No bids still for sale on Sturmgewehr http://www.sturmgewehr.com/forums/index.php?/topic/14450-wts-thompsons-mp40-more-see-list/ Thompson Savage Commercial SOLD Look at the bottom of his ad. listed as sold His Mp40 is on gb with 1 bid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 Thompson Savage Commercial SOLD Look at the bottom of his ad. listed as sold His Mp40 is on gb with 1 bid. BDMERCANTILE sold $77,500 worth of NFA firearms in half a day on Sturmgewehr. Another indicator of the red hot economy! The buyers could have bought them on Gunbroker with his "No Reserve" auctions. ...of course the reserves were the same prices listed on Sturmgewehr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightguy Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) He sold it i dont know who would pay Colt money for a Savage. He lists his guns for nutty prices often and it looks like he got it again. Yes but worn Colts are common for this money. This particular gun is a rarity especially considering the condition. The nicest one on the planet ? For the advanced collector. PS BDMERCHANTILE went WAYYYY beyond the call of duty when I bought from him.I offered to send him a few grand over our agreed price once seeing the merchandise."No Thanks a deal is a deal"WOW Edited July 25, 2019 by lightguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim c 351 Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 I'm confused, but wouldn't any Thompson not accepted by the military, be a commercial Thompson???Jim C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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