bmarvin Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 What was the approx. serial number cutoff of the square slot versus the later radiused cut? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireMerc Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 S/N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Sergeant Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 (edited) I had one that was in the 46XX range that was squared while another one was in the 26XX range that had a rounded slot. Not sure who in 2004 was tracking this but I provided them a photo showing the squared slot on the 45XX gun. I was told at that time that was outside the normal range. I guess there are exceptions. found the pic http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y56/First...dofsloton21.jpg Edited February 12, 2008 by First Sergeant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmarvin Posted February 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 My understanding was the 3500 range also. Then I saw this on Subguns http://www.subguns.com/classifieds/index.c...query=retrieval It appears to be a 4500 range with a square cut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z3BigDaddy Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 It appears to be a 4500 range with a square cut I don't know what you you mean by that. It is pretty obivious it is serial number 4580 do you think that it has been altered perhaps? The newest GH book shows nothing special about it. Last sighting collector in MN. http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p178/z3bigdaddy/Thompson%20Stuff/squarecit21a021208.jpghttp://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p178/z3bigdaddy/Thompson%20Stuff/squarecit21b021208.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1921A Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 (edited) This is a good example of the type of mis-information that first began with the Cox book. When the book was written most of the technical data was based on guns Cox observed. Some examples; the so called "mixed markings" guns, those guns having a combination of early and late fire control stampings. Cox stated, if I remember correctly, that there were only two of these observed and "assumed" they were rare. They aren't. There are actually quite a few of them out there. Then there's the "canvas spare parts pouch," believed by Cox to be the "rarest Thompson accessory." There is not a single piece of tangible evidence that this pouch is anything but a Mills "universal small parts" pouch. No known Colt Thompson literature lists the pouch as a Thompson accessory. No documents have been found to show that any were purchased from A.O.C. Now before you go looking for a rope to lynch me, I'm not trashing Cox's book! It's a great reference source but it does contain quite a bit of information that has since been shown to be inaccurate. Colt Thompsons have all sorts of unusual features if a person takes the time to look at them. Example, the receiver nose of 21A #1234 is not radiused on leading edge corners. It's the only model 21 I've ever seen that isn't. Is it a one of a kind? Probably not. We know that a number of receivers were scrapped for defects of some type and then mysteriously reappeared years later. If a late run replacement receiver was substituted that could explain the square actuator slot/high serial number combo and probably the "mixed marking" guns as well. This is one of the things I like about this forum. If you pay attention, there is a steady trickle of verifiable Thompson data emerging..... Greg Fox Edited February 12, 2008 by 1921A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Sergeant Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 The Subguns 1921 has a higher number than the one I posted and the highest I've seen with a squared slot. Anybody got one higher? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bug Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 I'm trying to find the pictures I have but we had a gun a few years back in the 5400 range with a square cut slot. Bob D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z3BigDaddy Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 OK So the gist of this whole thing is that receivers were not necessarily numbered as they were machined but rather as they entered assembly or the actual build process? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimFromFL Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 OK So the gist of this whole thing is that receivers were not necessarily numbered as they were machined but rather as they entered assembly or the actual build process? Good point. So when they stated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireMerc Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 The Only time will tell how much more we have to learn about an item produced over 86 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD. Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 This forum is a great source of information. This one thread shows exceptions to the well known general rule pertaining to the square and round cut actuator slot. The posted pictures verify NO 4580 has a square actuator slot. First Sergeant - Can you provide the complete serial number and/or pictures the Colt Thompson in the 4600 serial number range with a square cut actuator slot. And the one in the 2600 range with the rounded actuator slot. Bug - Can you find the serial number of the Colt Thompson in the 5400 serial number range with the square cut actuator slot. This is a great thread to record this information for future research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Sergeant Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 (edited) TD, As far as the 4500 series gun, I mis-typed the first refereance to that gun as 46XX in my original post. sorry for that confusion. The 4580 gun from Subguns is a higher number. I may have a picture that shows the rounded slot on the 2600 series gun. After serching, unfortunately this is the best picture showing the serial # and part of the slot. You have to look close. I don't keep that gun here so I can't get a better picture right away. http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y56/First...dedslot1921.jpg Edited February 16, 2008 by First Sergeant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gijive Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 (edited) As a matter of interest, one of the St. Valentine's Day Massacre guns, Ser. No. 2347, a Model 1921A, has late style markings, Thompson bullet logo, rounded actuator slot, fire/safe markings etc. I believe the earlier serial numbered guns were a mix of markings as evidenced by the empirical evidence presented in this post. Obviously, early marked receivers were held back for finishing and reentered the production line after the change had been made to the markings. Conversely, later maeked receivers started appearing on guns earlier than originally thought during Cox's research and subsequent publication. Edited February 16, 2008 by gijive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD. Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 First Sergeant, Thank you for the additional information. That looks like a nice pair of Thompsons. I believe I can tell it is a rounded slot from the picture. However, it would be great if you can take a better picture sometime and post to this thread. That would revive this discussion sometime in the future. gijive, I never noticed that distinction with one of the SVDM Thompsons. Very interesting - thanks for sharing. I agree with your assessment regarding the production of the Colt Thompson. Greg Fox is also right on point. The Cox book was a very good starting point. One would be well served to research further many of the points raised by Cox years ago. And as Greg states, this forum is a great place to start. I am going to start a thread about another often quoted rule about the Colt Thompson to see if there are any known exceptions in this area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bug Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 It turns out that we still had the gun I was thinking of. I was a little off with the SN. It wasn't 5400 but rather 5700. http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i146/mgbug/IMG_6498B.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD. Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Bob, Thanks for posting. This looks like a very nice Thompson and a great example of an exception to the rule. If everyone on this board who owned a Colt Thompson took a minute and checked, I bet a few more exceptions would surface. This is good stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gijive Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 (edited) Hi, I am resurrecting this thread to correct my earlier post regarding one of the St. Valentine's Day Massacre guns and its markings. My memory failed me a little. The gun does have mixed markings. It has the later style markings on the grip frame, however, it does have the earlier Thompson logo and the squared actuator slot which is the most common for guns below the 2500 serial number range. Sorry for the error, I should consult my photos more often before posting from memory. :banghead: http://members.aol.com/gijive/2347top1.jpg http://members.aol.com/gijive/2347markings.jpg Edited March 7, 2008 by gijive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD. Posted March 10, 2008 Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 gijive, Thanks for updating your original post. I understand completely. With everywhere you have been in the last year, I don't see how you remember anything Thompson! Let's move this one back to the top. Perhaps another exception to the general rule will surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M1Chef Posted November 22, 2017 Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 Not sure if anyone is still tracking higher serial numbers with square cut slots anymore, but here is a picture of my new to me Colt. It is in the 7200 serial number range and has the square cut actuator slot. HTHM1Chef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted November 22, 2017 Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 Hmmm, this is interesting as i thought it might have been during the mod to the 1928(N) that rounded the slot might have been introduced. But now it would appear those with the Square cut slot might have been manufactured not to spec. Maybe a step missed or something in manufacturing. Because the drawing dated 7 May 1919 (45-1-2) shows the radius as well as the 1935 drawing 45-G-2. Anyone know of a drawing dated prior to 1919 that shows the square cut? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted November 22, 2017 Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 Not sure if anyone is still tracking higher serial numbers with square cut slots anymore, but here is a picture of my new to me Colt. It is in the 7200 serial number range and has the square cut actuator slot. ColtSquareCutSlot.jpg HTHM1Chef That is a pretty late serial number to still find the square slot. Was this receiver taken out of the production line for some further machining to tolerances and then reintroduced later on in the 1921 year when the serial number was stamped? Obviously the updated 5700 serial number is obsolete as your serial number is a new anomaly for the square slot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M1Chef Posted November 22, 2017 Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 Don't know if it will clarify anything, but this Colt originally shipped to a PD in mid 1928. M1Chef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelkih Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 Not sure if anyone is still tracking higher serial numbers with square cut slots anymore, but here is a picture of my new to me Colt. It is in the 7200 serial number range and has the square cut actuator slot. ColtSquareCutSlot.jpg HTHM1ChefWow, that's late. Mine is a 3000 numbered gun, and it has the square slot and the AutoOrdnance logo, but the later selector markings. I'm interested to know, your 7000 numbered gun, does it also have the AutoOrdnance markings on the top of the receiver? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M1Chef Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 No, it has the later Thompson bullet logo on the top of the receiver. M1Chef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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