huggytree Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 http://azfirearms.com/p-7877-mp40-9mm-german-transferable-machinegun.aspx its at SAR right now....listed as a re manufactured on their website just looking for opinions on what this is?.....havent gotten a hold of the dealer yet....refinished....and looks like some rust marks on the refinish already.... not sure if this is a tube or what it is anyone at SAR able to give me an opinion on this gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black River Militaria CII Posted December 2, 2017 Report Share Posted December 2, 2017 (edited) Excellent price on a tube MP40, f which I have seen, handled and worked on many. One of you guys who have been picking apart MP40 tube guns advertised in the high teens and into the twenties ought to jump on this one now!! Edited December 2, 2017 by Black River Militaria CII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandman1957 Posted December 2, 2017 Report Share Posted December 2, 2017 there you go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speeddemon02 Posted December 2, 2017 Report Share Posted December 2, 2017 first thing i noticed was the butt stock is upside down, better check that the bolt isnt either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt21a Posted December 2, 2017 Report Share Posted December 2, 2017 I will check the MP-40's on sat. and the three MP-38's with full report.Some nice stuff at show and of course some overpriced stuff also.I think some decided to watch the last auctions and price it like that about 5 $40,000 grand Thompson.s with nothing extra. Out of five three looked good. two so so. Brought three AR'S sold all three within a few hours.two Sp'1 and a Sontay Com.but it was only 4 grand that is why I did not price them at 5 grand.Colt21A Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petroleum 1 Posted December 2, 2017 Report Share Posted December 2, 2017 Ron...I was at the show fri am and took a quick look at the 40 huggy is asking about its at a local dealer name is azfirearms.com down the south end of the building middle rows. Its in a glass case. Can you check out the 1928a1 at the table on the east wall the banner says Thomas Stewart hes a local az dealer. I think hes asking 27k thx Vinny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt21a Posted December 2, 2017 Report Share Posted December 2, 2017 Tom is a buddy of mine for 20 years will check it out, yesterday was meet and greet all day and it was crazy.. today is look around shop day. will check the 28 out. Colt 21A Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted December 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2017 (edited) Ive tried to contact AZFirearms through their website and by phone...i have not yet gotten a return call or even a correct phone # for the owner - DAN on his website they call this a GERMAN MANUFACTURER not a tube gun....so i believe at this point its a Rewat, refinished and showing a bit of rust for the price point if the rewat was done correctly enough i think anything i find further can be repaired and still be a good deal.... Ron, if you have a chance to handle the gun, take it apart and inspect it and report back it would be greatly appreciated...the other 2 MP40's? no interest...looking for a good shooter, not a $25-$40k collector...this is the only gun i have interest in RON-----have the owner call me 262-224-8377 (Dave)---this is my cell/work line....id like a few pics...barrel,chamber,receiver......with these pics and someones review of what they see i can make a decision......he can text me the pics i do not expect the gun to be perfect for the price...just a good shooter Edited December 2, 2017 by huggytree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black River Militaria CII Posted December 2, 2017 Report Share Posted December 2, 2017 >first thing i noticed was the butt stock is upside down, better check that the bolt isnt either.< Stock arms are correctly assembled with the button release on the left side, since the design is for right handed shooters. Only the folding buttplate was assembled to the stock arms with the longer half to the top, which can easily be diassembled and turned over.Stock hinge can only be assembled with the release button on the left side since the locking collar in the grip frame can only be assembled for use of the button on the left side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted December 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2017 (edited) Bob, on their website they say manufacturer is GERMAN anything you can tell from the pics that its a ERB/Wilson tube? they told Preto 1 it was a tube when he looked at it yesterday....from talking with the dealers guys yesterday they dont seem to know much about the gun at all.... from the pics---it looks refinished, but some parts look like the finish is light and possibly original finish....trying to determine why some parts are showing rust and lighter colored... im hoping to see the gun have matching #'s except for barrel and nut and parts related to that.......a barrel w/o a # would be a reproduction barrel correct? this is the receiver # i believe...and i can see the barrel nut is 313 also......ive read its possible to have a cut in 1/2 receiver....so a simple look inside would reveal this? does this pic prove german receiver correct? http://azfirearms.com/images/product/large/ae00-8907_8_.jpg Edited December 2, 2017 by huggytree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petroleum 1 Posted December 2, 2017 Report Share Posted December 2, 2017 Tom is a buddy of mine for 20 years will check it out, yesterday was meet and greet all day and it was crazy.. today is look around shop day. will check the 28 out. Colt 21A Ron Ty Ron!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black River Militaria CII Posted December 2, 2017 Report Share Posted December 2, 2017 (edited) In my opinion gun has definitely been reblued with some prior metal prep on some parts. From closer inspection of the pic of the front end of the receiver, it is not a receiver made from a newly manufactured tube such as Wilson or Erb, but is a cut and welded receiver registered by Mr Harkey as stated. Possibly the front end of the receiver, which is clearly original, might have been welded to a newly made rear tube section, but that is unlikely. Front end numbers match the lower. The front sight mount, has taken a very light purplish tine to it indicating that it was hot dip blued.It is a reman and cheap!!! Edited December 2, 2017 by Black River Militaria CII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted December 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2017 (edited) so the most important pic would be of inside the tube.. if the tube is 1/2 smooth and 1/2 with the recesses for carbon inside its 1/2 original/1/2 tube if it all has the recesses then its all original...im thinking correctly on how to tell? any issues with a cut in 1/2 and rewelded? ive done some searching this morn and ran into that info on how some were done.... thanks for your help Bob....its the info i was looking for....im at a point where i figure at this price any issues can be fixed in the future and still be a decent deal...and if it runs as is--great... thanks for your advice Bob! Dave Edited December 2, 2017 by huggytree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted December 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2017 Bob Harkey died in 2016.....would have been great to contact him about the gun to get 1st hand knowledge on it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsonlmg41 Posted December 2, 2017 Report Share Posted December 2, 2017 I walked by it. The Todd's had two for sale and their pricing is generally reasonable, but they don't do the net much and I don't know about pictures from them? Those three were all I saw at the show. German remanufactured generally means cut and welded back together sometime between 68' and 86', not a tube, and that is not generally how you would describe a reactivated gun. Also probably not C+R as of yet if that is the case. The telling feature would be name listed on the form in the manufacturer's area. It also may never have been cut, just registered.... Without seeing the paperwork and disassembling the gun in person I would not personally consider something like this. That seller did not seem to specialize in MG's, they had a lot of other vintage stuff on the tables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted December 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2017 ive read that some rewelds were never rewelded...just claimed to have been to get past regulations....im hoping Ron can help me on this one and dissemble and look for me.....in talking with the dealer i got the same impression...they had no idea on any questions.....i need to talk with the actual owner....the guys there didnt even have their bosses phone # !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifthmdec Posted December 2, 2017 Report Share Posted December 2, 2017 Some are original, that missed the 68 Amnesty and were registered on a Form 2 by a manufacturer of record. We went through this experience as the MP 40 was advertised as a Rewat. The call out was the manufacturer of record on the Form 4 was JP Foote & Company. It was also marked on the receiver. This MP 40 was one of three that was listed on a Form 2 in 1982, with the JP Foote & Co the manufacturer of record. Best to ask for as much information as possible before plopping down some money on a good deal. Especially, if one is looking for a C&R. We waited a year until the seller received the FOIA paperwork. We did not purchase the MP 40. Worth the wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted December 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2017 How would anyone find out it was illegally registered ? At this point would it matter ? The atf isnt going door to door inspecting to see if it was cut/rewelded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black River Militaria CII Posted December 2, 2017 Report Share Posted December 2, 2017 (edited) MGs that were registered as manufactured under the name of a shop or individual but were not cut and welded back together are sought after by a number of collectors who don't care and will buy these guns because of the much cheaper cost. There are many uncut and registered MGs done that way post-'68 Amnesty simply because it was a lot easier, deliberately since the uncut gun was worth a few more bucks than a welded reman, by mistake or ignorance of the regs, owner couldn't do the work, etc, etc. Take your pick.An MG that that is registered as manufactured under the ID of "Germany", "WWII", an actual WWII maker's name, or any other ID designating a factory made gun can still have been registered post '68 Amnesty with faked F2 "reactivation" by an 07/II. These MG can't be identified without an FOIA request revealing original date of registration. I've uncovered numbers of these as have others.This MP40 is ID'ed apparently as manufactured by Harkey, so one can assume this name is on the registration as manufacturer and the gun is a reman of a cut original receiver. If, on inspection, there is no evidence of being cut, which I doubt, then let your conscience be your guide. If that is too threatening to you, then pass it up. Requirement for destruction of an MG receiver to make a reman during the years of '68 to '86 was one saw cut approximately in the center of the receiver. Cuts show up in all sorts of different part of the receiver as a way of making the fitting and welding easier. A new made milled MP40 tube would have the exterior of the tube configured to match an original tube and the interior would be smooth. Very unlikely that a vintage receiver front end would be welded to a new made rear section, in my opinion and experience, but there's always a first time for everything. Edited December 2, 2017 by Black River Militaria CII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted December 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2017 Thank you for your help and advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifthmdec Posted December 2, 2017 Report Share Posted December 2, 2017 Bob, made the point as thoroughly as one can... The fake Form 2 was a fact at the time 68-86... Better informed, than sorry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifthmdec Posted December 2, 2017 Report Share Posted December 2, 2017 Bob, made the point as thoroughly as one can... The fake Form 2 was a fact at the time 68-86... Better informed, than sorry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
83Baron Posted December 2, 2017 Report Share Posted December 2, 2017 Just curious. Did Ron say they had an mp38 or two for sale at SAR, and if so how much?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petroleum 1 Posted December 2, 2017 Report Share Posted December 2, 2017 Can a welded receiver be trusted to hold up to wear and tear over lots of rounds fired??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted December 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2017 finally got a hold of someone.....SAR has a rule- not to remove their zip tie...so no one can take apart...i would assume if the gun was taken to a SAR rep they could somewhere...id think most buyers would want to see the guts of what they are buying... sounds like the gun has been there for a while......not sure how many buyers of a saw cut gun there are out there.....probably not a fast selling gun still hoping Ron or some else at the show can help me out and dissemble and get me a few pics and an honest review of what they see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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