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1921 On Gunbroker


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#1 giantpanda4

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Posted 30 June 2005 - 10:42 AM

http://www.gunbroker...p?Item=34154429

Anyone know the story about this one (I left Gordon's book at home!)?? Who is Mr Staton?

Bulged barrel and all - I bet it could get real crazy in the last few minutes here! Wish I had an additional $20K. At least then I could bid, but probably wouldn't win it!

Not mine, here is the description:

YES, THIS IS THE REAL THING. WOW!!! After many years of owning this beauty and with retirement approaching, I have decided to sell it. Thia is a 1921 (not a 1921C) model Thompson Sub-Machine Gun. It is fully transferable to the public, not like the class 3 guns that are law enforcement or dealer guns only. This gun was legalized during the 1968 amnesty program of the National Firearms Act. It is in 45acp, and comes with everything included in the pictures, 2 (30 round) mag pouches that hold 3 mags each, 9 (30 round) magazines, 3 (20 round) mags, an extra trigger group, another bolt assembly, another barrel that is threaded on both ends (it is threaded on the front for a compensator), another forearm handle, 50 round drum magazine, and original owners manual. This gun is totally original and is a blast to shoot. It works perfectly and is in excellent condition. The barrel has a slight bulge inside, but it does not hamper the function of the gun, the 50 round drum functions flawlessly as well. I will let all the pictures tell most of the story based on condition. Please allow ample time for all 29 pictures to load. It also comes with a documented story of how it spent time in it's younger years, this story is worth a million bucks within itself. Now for the sale and transferable part. Upon completion, I must be paid in full within 10 days for this gun, I will leave bad feedback on any deadbeat bidder. Money orders or cashiers checks only, NO PAYPAL. Personal inspection of this gun can be arranged (which I strongly suggest any serious buyer to do) by emailing me at jwstaton@bellsouth.net . If this gun is purchased by a Florida resident (which is where I reside and the gun is licensed within) the federal tax transfer can be handeled between myself and the buyer. The buyer is totally responsible to make sure they can take delivery of this gun and they must pay the 200 dollar one time tax transfer fee. Failure of any buyer to take delivery of this gun will result in forfeiting money paid for this gun, so I repeat, MAKE SURE YOU CAN LEGALLY OWN THIS GUN BEFORE BIDDING. If the buyer lives outside of Florida, they must contact a class 3 dealer to handle the transfer for them. This is the buyers responsibility as well. I would, upon BATF giving me the OK, ship the gun to the class 3 dealer on a form 4 and the class 3 dealer could transfer the gun to the buyer using the same form 4 paperwork. I would need 100.00 more for shipping inside a hard case, I would take care of insurance. Florida buyers must pay 6.5% more for state sales tax. THIS IS A FULLY AUTOMATIC MACHINE GUN, DO NOT BID UNLESS YOU ARE SERIOUS. Email with questions
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#2 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 30 June 2005 - 11:36 AM

This is another head scratch ad. Apparently Gordon Herigstad owned this very Colt TSMG and described the condition in his serial number book as 95%. Say what?

The current owner as of 2000 is a Steve Jenkins of Texas. But in the ad the seller says that, "After many years of owning this beauty." Five years is many? Beauty? He also describes this example as totally original. But where is the Colt (Remington) stock? If a true 1921A never had its barrel removed or changed in order to attach a Cutts comp, why isn't the witness mark aligned?

What is this mystery story that accompanies the TSMG other than it was amnesty registered? GH attribute a Steven Van Voorhees of Florida as the owner back in 1966.

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#3 TSMG28

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Posted 30 June 2005 - 11:48 AM

And did you notice that the "extra" trigger frame, grip and bolt are for an M1, not even a 28....

The buttplate looks like it doesn't have much finish left, and the whole butt stock appears to be WWII vintage.

As usual, somebody buggered up the Colt trigger frame on the right side trying to release the springs of the pivot plate.

Arthur,

It appears that the bbl witness marks do line up. I think it is just the perspective angle of the photograph that makes them look out of alignment. It appears to be the original bbl, bulged though it may be....
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#4 Roland, Headless Thompson Gunner

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Posted 30 June 2005 - 12:44 PM

QUOTE
Failure of any buyer to take delivery of this gun will result in forfeiting money paid for this gun


I love coniditions like this. You put up 20+K and if anything falls through then your screwed and you have to kick in another $100.00 for shipping.
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#5 dalbert

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Posted 30 June 2005 - 07:26 PM

This gun does have a colorful history in Gordon's book. It involves high speed boats running whiskey in Florida during prohibition.

Arthur,

Where did you see the reference to Gordon previously owning the weapon, and the 95% condition? I don't see a reference to this in his book.

David Albert
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#6 Remo Williams

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Posted 30 June 2005 - 08:43 PM

This guy is local to me. He picked these guns up in the last 3-5 years. The BAR and M3 look as good in person as they do in the pics. I believe he is looking to buy some land , so these are up for sale. He owns a Gun shop and will be looking for top dollar.

The mods to the Thompson might have come from Van Voorhees, as he was a local gunsmith here. The last time I heard about him was the mid 80's.HTH.
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#7 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 30 June 2005 - 09:18 PM

Dalbert,
I'm looking at serial #1769. What number are you looking at? This serial number is MIA in Cox and Hill books as far as who purchased it originally.

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#8 dalbert

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Posted 30 June 2005 - 10:00 PM

Arthur,

I noticed it was missing from the Cox and Hill books as well. I'm looking at Colt Thompson #1769 in the 4th (2004) edition of Gordon's book. (Book Serial #241) I found the story under "Van Voorhees" in the alphabetical section.

David Albert
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#9 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 30 June 2005 - 10:16 PM

Dalbert,
I'm looking in the Third Edition 2002. And I also notice that GH didn't include this Voorhees "updated" info in the last batch of "updated" serial number pages. Why did GH remove his ownership of this TSMG and his percentage grading from the 2004 edition? So now GH not only adds additional information in his subsequent edition's, but he subtracts info as well? This does not instill confidence in the scholarship of GH's work.

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#10 dalbert

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Posted 30 June 2005 - 10:23 PM

Arthur,

Hopefully it was a serial number mistake in the earlier edition. I don't know how else to account for it. The whiskey running story in Florida in the 1920's that is included in the 4th edition is pretty fun history.

David
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#11 philasteen

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 08:02 AM

The markings on his BAR are very suspect. I wouldn't touch it at any price. It's clearly been reserialed at some point in its life.

user posted image


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#12 GonePostal

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 11:14 AM

Could this possibly be legit in some way? I thought it was odd the moment I saw the milling that was done to the serial number area. Also thought it was strange that is was a NESA gun since everyone of those I've ever seen was a PRE sample gun and not transferrable.

Should cross post this if possible to the BAR board as well.

GP
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#13 giantpanda4

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 02:04 PM

It is my experience that many guns had s/ns modified when they were amnesty registered. THere are too many running around with obviously altered numbers. I was just trying to buy s/n 11311 M1 from an estate. Tman assisted in telling me that the gun wasn't registered to anyone anywhere, so I had to stay away from it. What sucks is the s/n is obviously restamped, and I cannot get hold of it (don't want to even touch it now!) to take the barrel off and get the real s/n.

As long as it shows the s/n that it is registered as, it is OK (at least by me! ph34r.gif ).
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#14 GonePostal

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 03:38 PM

FWIW, I spoke to the seller today and he's definately looking for top dollar. He said he wouldn't disclose any of the reserves and he explained that he purchased this 1921 Thompson directly from the Voorhees fellow years ago. He couldn't explain the renumbering on the BAR and only said "I've got Federal paperwork for the gun with the serial on that matches the gun and that's all I care about".

Hmm.... not exactly a statement that provides the comfort I'd want for a gun in that price range.

GP
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#15 philasteen

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 03:58 PM

FWIW I have a M1A1 with an altered serial number.

But, it's because the original serial number was removed and replaced with a IRSxxx amnesty number.

I'm comfortable with that one, especially since I bought it from the seller whose name was on the amnesty paperwork.

That BAR on the other hand has a completely random serial number. Further, you can see the old serial number, so there is no doubt it could be raised.

A FOIA request might be helpful to find out if the original registration was for a NESA BAR.
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#16 CAL7

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Posted 09 August 2005 - 09:50 AM

Just an FYI update.... The original Thompson auction ended at $19,500 with 9 bids and the reserve never met. It was re-listed and got to $15K with 7 bids. The next re-listing had a starting bid price of $40K and no reserve; also no bids. It has been re-listed four more times, with the last still active (I would post it, but I don't want to shill for this guy). I guess the $43K gun that sold at auction this spring has everyone coming out of the woodwork to sell a Thompson for $40 grand.
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#17 ACARLG

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Posted 09 August 2005 - 03:59 PM

QUOTE (PhilOhio @ Jul 2 2005, 08:31 AM)


Can you imagine holding the registration paper for a nice 2-digit 1921 Thompson. But you got involved in a situation you would rather have avoided, and you no longer have the gun, and dare not explain why, and later you had the chance to get your hands on a mint '21 which, unfortunately, was never registered...found in the wall of an old house or something...

That'd make for a good low-budget movie script...
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#18 John Jr

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Posted 10 August 2005 - 12:54 AM

Somebody email the sombitch and tell him I will trade him a couple patent date mags for his gun. I got one of them thare real rare ones.

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