Sculptor Posted July 5, 2010 Report Share Posted July 5, 2010 I am as interested in the history of guns as the guns themselves. When I saw the Russian Lend-Lease Thompsons and accessories I bought a group of them and put them together with documentation. I bought a set from Don Bell at Omega. When I explained to Mr. Bell what I was putting together he was kind enough to take pictures of the Thompson I bought with the accessories and the original packing case. He also included a signed note explaining where everything came from. Here is an unmarked five cell mag pouch that will stay unmarked. The belt was marked US but has no makers marking. The gun is AO and the cut up receiver is AO with all parts shown in their places. Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reconbob Posted July 5, 2010 Report Share Posted July 5, 2010 (edited) Hi Dick - thanks for posting this. Is there more information available? Now is the time (before the trail gets cold, so to speak) to get the details on where these guns came from in Russia, and what route they took before they ended up as parts sets in the USA. The term "Russian parts set" or "Russian Lend-Lease" have become so common and yet are only general terms. I have heard over and over companion stories that the guns were all sent over in Stuart tanks (4 to a tank) and taken out of the tanks and not used. Also that the pristine condition of the guns is because they were stored in salt mines where there was no humidity. I have heard that one importer got them all and ditributed them to all of the other US sellers, but also that multiple deals involving multiple players were made. But somebody had to be THE GUY who found them and got it all started. The picture of the packing case raises interesting questions. Is/was this an original WW2 case? What is the meaning of the circle and triangle logo? Who/why had someone taken the trouble to highlight the engraving on the receivers? On the M1 the bumpy looking bright rear sight rivets are clearly not original. I don't imagine that you can answer all these questions but I invite anyone who has knowledge of all this to reply. Where did the Russian kits come from? What city or cities in Russia? Who made the deal? When they left Russia where did they go? How many kits were there? Who deactivated them and passed them on the us here in the USA? The background and story of the guy who was able to find, export from Russia and import into the US 1000's of original Thompson parts sets and MINT condition accesories has had far more impact on the Thompson hobby than , say, an Auto-Ordnance salesman back in the 1920's and yet we know more about the 1920's than we know about this modern day Thompson saga. Look at the research and posts that members of this board have contributed to topics such a the "Post Office" Thompsons, or the M1923 Thompson, or any number of topics relating to succession, etc. Yet all we know about the "Russian Thompsons" so far is that they were...well...Russian Thompsons. Bob Edited July 5, 2010 by reconbob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sculptor Posted July 5, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2010 Hi Bob, I would love to have the questions you have asked answered. There is information on this forum, however it only answers a few of the questions. This forum has the most knowledgeable people on Thompson history. Can you please help answer those questions? Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted July 5, 2010 Report Share Posted July 5, 2010 ReconBob and Sculptor, Very cool posts. I wonder if Vincent in Malta (schatzperson), the person who put together the list of Russian Lend-Lease TSMG's, might have more information. Here is a link to his post: http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/ind...showtopic=10382 Serial number list: http://www.sturmgewehr.com/dalbert/MGBoard...mbers030409.JPG David Albert dalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inertord Posted July 6, 2010 Report Share Posted July 6, 2010 Is it me, or do The 1928 Models shown in the second photo appear to have dummy receivers installed (Note the actuator slots)? http://i49.tinypic.com/30c38cz.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkeye_Joe Posted July 6, 2010 Report Share Posted July 6, 2010 Probably a shot from the Omega site..with dummy receivers....like this one: http://www.omega-weapons-systems.com/pic/StorePics/dummy28thompson2.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sculptor Posted July 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2010 (edited) The receivers including the one I posted are "dummy" receivers from Omega, however all other parts, accessories and cases are Russian Lend-Lease. The pictures were taken for me by Don Bell at Omega. I should have stated that the receivers were "dummies" in my first post. The cut up receiver with all internal parts is AO and Lend-Lease. I may be mistaken but I don't think any intact Russian Lend-Lease Thompsons were imported. I think that is another unanswered question. Dick Edited July 6, 2010 by Sculptor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james m Posted July 6, 2010 Report Share Posted July 6, 2010 (edited) Quote: "The cut up receiver with all internal parts is AO and Lend-Lease. I may be mistaken but I don't think any intact Russian Lend-Lease Thompsons were imported. I think that is another unanswered question." To the best of my knowledge and from what Don told me no intact Thompsons were imported from the Lend Lease Lot. My understanding is Don got his parts sets thru the guy (Ryden?) in England who is now deceased. It is also my understanding that he had a Breakers License which allowed him to import the Thompsons and then disassemble them. I was told he had many hundreds of Thompson receivers stacked up in his basement! I also have wondered if he had some of these Thompsons de-activated to European specs. for sale there to collectors? Jim Edited July 6, 2010 by james m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couchcommando Posted July 6, 2010 Report Share Posted July 6, 2010 is Rydens internet site still up? Is his wife carrying on the family business? Anybody know the site address? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyfivecal Posted July 6, 2010 Report Share Posted July 6, 2010 (edited) couchcommando its: RYTON ARMS the site is still up, and under "fair dates" there is one listed for july and august, but BOTH in the UK. if Jan is carrying on, it might follow that she did so only in the UK now, but i don't know that for a fact. there is a contact link at the website. hope this helps. i had the pleaasure of meeting Tony and Jan not long before Tony passed away, they were both very kind. PS Sculptor, thanks for posting! like Reconbob, i'd like to know more. there is so much about WW2 that is slipping away, as people pass on. in all countries. lend lease was fascinating, in what we shipped, it would be nice to know more about where it ended up, at the bottom of the sea, in salt mines, wherever. Edited July 6, 2010 by fortyfivecal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkoholic Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) Are their US pistol belts legit? I notice they don't show the "male" end of the belt or the adjustment side. Edited March 18, 2012 by elkoholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoscoeTurner Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 Yes, but the thread you replied to was from 2010. The belts they were selling in the US in 2009 which was the last time I saw Ryton in the US were original belts but most had no markings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkoholic Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 I'm referring to Page 8 of his website...He has thompsons on Page 9 also. http://www.rytonarms.co.uk/shop.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bug Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 I'm referring to Page 8 of his website...He has thompsons on Page 9 also. http://www.rytonarms.co.uk/shop.php For what it's worth, Tony Budge (Rhyton Arms) has been dead for a couple of years now. We got most of our LL stuff from him 5 or 6 years ago. It was legit and mint. I don't know if his wife kept the business open or not but he had a lot of inventory when he passed so I guess someone had to sell it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanemono Posted March 18, 2012 Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 The pistol belt that I bought from Don Bell at Omega has a U.S. stamp the five cell magazine pouch is un-marked. Don was kind enough to send me pictures of the Lend-Lease Thompson parts and accessorys and also included a signed statement that everything I bought was from the Russian Lend-Lease find. I like to have historical documention for everything I buy and i thought the Russian Lend-Lease material is really neat should be documented.Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrylta Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 I bought a lot of stuff from him at his last SAR East show. He stated that he had over athousand uncut Thompson receivers in his basement. I wonder what happened to them,,,,scrap metal maybe?-Darryl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z3BigDaddy Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 Probably still sitting in the basement... Like all of us he was waiting just in case laws changed... That was the story he told me at least.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk VII Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 Ryton was still trading when I saw them at a show back in January, and they still had Thompsons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt21a Posted March 19, 2012 Report Share Posted March 19, 2012 Lord of War Nick Cage..probably brought them all in.. and you know how that story ended. All of the stuff i sold here over five years ago came from Russia, then uk then here. was all new unissued items. over 1,000 20 round magazines. and many patent date mags had been mixed in also. belts pouches, and m1 and 1928 kit's.some oilers and cleaning rods also.slings included. Funny thing when you have so much of it you figure it won't end.. sold all of it. however now a few hundred guys have stuff they always wanted new unissued minty cond. in five or ten years it won't matter. The Zombies will have all the Thompson's. Ron /Colt21a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bug Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Lord of War Nick Cage..probably brought them all in.. and you know how that story ended. All of the stuff i sold here over five years ago came from Russia, then uk then here. was all new unissued items. over 1,000 20 round magazines. and many patent date mags had been mixed in also. belts pouches, and m1 and 1928 kit's.some oilers and cleaning rods also.slings included. Funny thing when you have so much of it you figure it won't end.. sold all of it. however now a few hundred guys have stuff they always wanted new unissued minty cond. in five or ten years it won't matter. The Zombies will have all the Thompson's. Ron /Colt21a Ron, we had the same experience with the twenty rounders. Mint, mint, mint and every now and the a mint patent date would fall out. Do you have any idea how they got in the mix? Bob D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoscoeTurner Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 Lord of War Nick Cage..probably brought them all in.. and you know how that story ended. All of the stuff i sold here over five years ago came from Russia, then uk then here. was all new unissued items. over 1,000 20 round magazines. and many patent date mags had been mixed in also. belts pouches, and m1 and 1928 kit's.some oilers and cleaning rods also.slings included. Funny thing when you have so much of it you figure it won't end.. sold all of it. however now a few hundred guys have stuff they always wanted new unissued minty cond. in five or ten years it won't matter. The Zombies will have all the Thompson's. Ron /Colt21a Ron, we had the same experience with the twenty rounders. Mint, mint, mint and every now and the a mint patent date would fall out. Do you have any idea how they got in the mix? Bob D I ended up with a couple of patent date magazines in the 20 round magazine packages they were selling in Louisville several years ago myself. Was darn glad to see those in the mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z3BigDaddy Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) Lord of War Nick Cage..probably brought them all in.. and you know how that story ended. All of the stuff i sold here over five years ago came from Russia, then uk then here. was all new unissued items. over 1,000 20 round magazines. and many patent date mags had been mixed in also. belts pouches, and m1 and 1928 kit's.some oilers and cleaning rods also.slings included. Funny thing when you have so much of it you figure it won't end.. sold all of it. however now a few hundred guys have stuff they always wanted new unissued minty cond. in five or ten years it won't matter. The Zombies will have all the Thompson's. Ron /Colt21a Ron, we had the same experience with the twenty rounders. Mint, mint, mint and every now and the a mint patent date would fall out. Do you have any idea how they got in the mix? Bob D Even had shotshell magazines in the group... I bought one from Gordon H that he picked up.... Little upcharge of $1,100 bucks when he sold it to me... ugh.... Oh back in the money days... Buying those magazines unwrapped in the packaging was like buying lottery scratch off tickets... Never knew what you would end up with. I never got a winner myownself... I don't think a Zombie could handle a Tommy, so no worries mate on that one... Edited March 20, 2012 by Z3BigDaddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now