Will Existing Form 4's Be Faster Now?

[The Lone Ranger]

Again.... the background checks are not holding you up. Although it is frequently repeated, the only time that has ever been true was in 2009-2010 when the wait was running about 80-90 days. The FBI donates 9-10 bodies to do all the checks for every FFL, FEL, FEP, EP, and NFA applicant. If ATF did them, then you would really have something to complain about. That may happen someday, but right now there is no capacity to take it on. FEL/FEP applications are mandated to be acted on 90 days after receipt of a completed one, and FFLs are 60 days while NFA has no such demands but it's an academic discussion. If those assigned people can maintain a 30 or even 60 day turnaround, they are months ahead of your paper. POC states like Oregon operate only on Oregon checks and have their own framework to contend with but use the NICS system as a foundation then augment with any state databases available to them. Federally, you can scoot out the door with your firearm after three .gov business days have passed. Some people get denied well after that has passed and some people are perpetually delayed with no resolution ever. "Instant" is a word in the title of the computer, but it does not apply to all checks.

 

Americans got the government they deserve. Apathy and spoilage will do that to a society. My parents were the last generation to endure genuine hardship and it's showing. Now people complain about their cell phone not having enough features and their flat screen isn't big enough and that's when there neighbors are financing the equipment. The communists and hippies figured out in the 70s if you want the system to change, you have to become the system. Seems like the other side might give it a try, but it does take effort.

[Sandman1957]

Interesting the revenue of Form 4s to the Govt. No incentive for them to remove Suppressors etc.

[huggytree]

when suppressors become more and more common it will be the people that demand it be removed....i see more and more hand guns w/ threaded barrels....and i believe you will see guns with built in suppressors from the factory some day.....eventually people will view a suppressor as normal...that is my view of how suppressors will get out of the registry....when the public accepts it as normal....which is slowly happening i believe and being pushed by gun makers

 

viewpoint #2 is that everything will stay on the NFA registry and Hillary will add SA assault weapons onto the list.....that the NFA registry may be about to get much larger.....its been the democrat way to incrementally do things and the way gun registry will happen is by first registering ''evil'' guns....then moving on to Grandpa's 3.06 deer rifle later on some day.

 

 

i did decide to call the ATF yesterday about the 2 items i sent in 2/24 and 2/28....both checks were cashed on 3-1-16 and i was told that is when the 6 month timer starts...i was told i will get my stamp sometime in early 9-16.....they didnt really seem annoyed, but my gut told me this guy gets calls all day long from people under 6 months calling on their items....when i bought all my NFA items i was told 4 months....maybe even 3.5.....seeing the times change over the past few months has made the wait much worse....i had expected to have all my items by october or early Nov....now im looking at March 2017.....the only good news for me is as long as it stays at 6 months i will have 1 gun a month for a few months after September.........waiting on my Uzi and suppressor is killing me right now.......work is slow and i have too much free thinking time on my hands

Edited August 13, 2016 by huggytree

[Got Uzi]

I've come to terms that I won't see my M10/9 until December or January....Thinking back on the transfers I have had in the past makes me think that the wait has always been estimated at 3-6 months.

[timkel]

Long wait times are really nothing new. Back then calling in was a total waste of time and $$. Govies!

There was an occasional quickie. How about less then 2 weeks? This is how it should be. I know this is "Impossible" and I "Don't understand the process"

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/timkel24102410/stuff/MAC-10SMGblacked_out.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/timkel24102410/stuff/form4_quick001.jpg

[bug]

Joe Miller. That brings back some memories. I got my Savage from him in '97. I think it took 58 days. Great guy.

 

Bob D

[timkel]

Joe Miller. That brings back some memories. I got my Savage from him in '97. I think it took 58 days. Great guy.

 

Bob D

Yes, Joe and his wife were very friendly. Back then he charged only $25 per transfer and his shop was on his front porch. Then he open up Miller's gun shop in East Stroudsberg. A real nice place to stop.

[DZelenka]

A Facebook friend posted that he had been in an ATF seminar earlier this week and was told that there were 100,000 paper forms and 35,000 electronic forms awaiting approval. I am not sure how many they can review per week but it is going to take some time to get through the backlog.

 

Dan

[huggytree]

wasnt part of this recent change with the NFA rules include hiring double the staff??

 

or was i imagining that?

 

seems like w/ double the staff that form 4's from Feb should be through and on to march-april........i would think most of the backlog would be in the last month or 2....not 6 months ago

 

 

still waiting for my Uzi from 2-24-16....checked cashed 3-1-16......(sigh)

[DZelenka]

You call on that Uzi lately? I have an M3 pending from 3/11.

[rbtf70]

What did your form 4 list as the overall length for the UZI? I had a full size Group Industries submitted to move from my individual collection to my trust. Got a letter from ATF stating that the overall length was wrong. Should be 26". It had gone through on a form 3 and then a form 4 as 18.5" (this is the folded length). I talked to a friend who had acquired one just like it from an estate a year ago and transferred in on a form 5. He also had received the same letter, and changed his paperwork to 26".

 

Looked at the ATF website and there is no clear definition of how overall length is measured on a firearm with a folding stock. Changed the length to 26" and sent in back with pictures of it open and closed next to a tape measure. Expect it to be back approved next week or so.

 

On my Colt 1921/28 Navy, it was also returned for questions on the markings. ATF wanted pictures, then wanted the form changed to 1921A and 1928 Navy over-mark added in the description. Maybe they are slow because they are getting picky on some of these things. That one was back twice and delayed three weeks.

 

Dave

[huggytree]

mine is listed at 26"

 

my last NFA item had a form kicked back for multiple reasons....so im sure that will come also....my dealer does suppressors all the time, so im expecting the suppressor first

 

since they mail them in groups and both items were cashed same day it would be nice to get them approved/stamp the same day......i keep checking my phone at work....waiting for the email.....

 

i have 1 FA in my possession(a ruger Kac556F), but the barrel is so thin and it heats up so crazy fast im afraid to shoot it much....its a gun to shoot 2x a year and then baby it the whole way......looking forward to an uzi where i already have multiple barrels and i can shoot the F out of it w/o worry....also something the family can use and control....the Ruger is an adult only gun as the rise is dramatic after 3 rounds...5 rounds and your shooting the sky(being dramatic)

[huggytree]

You call on that Uzi lately? I have an M3 pending from 3/11.

 

called early last week.....processing......

 

i know its close now, so im super excited(im at 10 months+ now due to the original dealer issues)...............more excited about the thompson, but i dont think ill see that one until Nov, Dec

[timkel]

What does "processing" mean? I hope it means it's getting signed today/mailed tomorrow. But it just sounds like govie speak for "go away"

[83Baron]

That's exactly what it means, unfortunately.

[ppgcowboy]

I wonder if there is a box they check to flag people who call too much by their standards, ie, once or twice.

[huggytree]

its the only time ive called......i did not call on my last one...

 

its always possible if you call weekly that they screw w/ you....its human nature to F with people when you have the power to do so...

 

ill know when i get my next in line NFA item before the UZI (my M16 is 3-29-16)...if that shows up before my suppressor and uzi i will know most likely ive been messed with...

 

i used the word ''processing'' above......im not sure what they said anymore.....they said something and i think it was processing, but it could have been another word....all i know is it wasnt APPROVED.....he told me not to expect it until 6 months after the check was cashed...

 

and he did not sound like a happy guy.......he sounded like a guy who answers the phone all day long and deals w/ people like me.....its not a very fun job

[johnsonlmg41]

Back in the day when the branch was smaller and everyone was "in the office" it may have been possible to piss people off, but today it's much bigger, the examiner may not even be on site, etc. no one really cares if you call or not, but quite frankly you are wasting everyone's time unless you are calling about a specific problem that you've been notified of. "Pending" is generally the term which means there is generally some movement on it, but no guarantee of when. It's gov. employees processing forms.....nothing too exiting and nothing anyone is in a rush to do and calling will not really give you any info, nor will it speed your process along. If you did a lot of transfers back in the day and got to know your zaminer they would occasionally mess with you and joke around, and occasionally a transfer could be sped along by various means.

 

huggytree, if you drive into Waukesha on 59 just north of sunset drive and just south of quick trip, maybe spotting the van on the west side of the road will put you more in the mood with the ac-556? The barrel doesn't heat any faster than an M16, but it's a nicer gun and parts are way more scarce and difficult to replace, so the illusion is that you'll want to be kinder to it. I'll loan you one of my beta drums for it if you feel the itch?

[huggytree]

I've shot all my fa's and the ac556 has the thinnest barrel. I have not shot my m16 yet but have bought a bcm upper for it. So I have no fear for overheating the factory barrel on it. The rest of my guns are open bolt. I shoot approx 240 rounds through them with little break between. They don't heat up nearly as fast as the ruger kac556. I take 10 minute breaks w the ruger and when done it takes 30 minutes to cool off.

I can replace a uzi barrel or Mac upper for a couple hundred. Can't easily do that w the ruger. I do own a spare ss barrel but it's the 20" version

Also Fletcher's won't let me shoot .223 at their range I'll gladly meet u to shoot thompsons there. Pick the night

Edited August 20, 2016 by huggytree

[ppgcowboy]

My stamp for my 28 Navy came in today. April 8th was when the check was cashed. I initially sent them a check that was cashed on Feb 8th and they sent the paperwork back on April 1 because my dealer did not sign the paperwork and thus the process had not yet begun. I thought it was a joke but it appears they do not joke over there. I got the paperwork back to them ASAP and they told me I would be put in the back of the line. I was pretty bummed about that.

[huggytree]

you are the only quick form 4 ive heard of, so ill bet you didnt go back to the end in line..that would make sense

 

or you got an inspector who is fast......

 

was it a trust or individual?

 

i am frustrated as hell at this point.....i wasnt thinking about it daily until a couple of weeks ago....now i think about it hourly....check my phone, looking for the email from the gun shop...

 

i know from the NFA tracker that form 4 trusts are past 6 months....it appears to be 6.5 right now, but the way the graph is going up you cant tell yet....it looks to be giving stamps from checks cashed mid Feb. (im March 1st on 2 NFA items)

 

going to my land this weekend....was hoping to bring some fun w/ new guns

 

i do wish you congratulations....with tears in my eyes over my situation......wonder if form 4's will hit 1 year by the time my last FA comes through...my guess looking at that chart that it will be....its going up at a 70 degree angle

Edited September 2, 2016 by huggytree

[ppgcowboy]

Huggytree, I really feel your pain. I did my transfer as an individual. The last time I called the person I talked with was very short with me. She did say to me that I see where your Form 4 was returned, I told her why and said I was hoping to be put back in the same point line. She almost laughed. She Ha!, that's not how it works, sorry. Your time starts when the last check was cashed. That is a direct quote. Maybe my agent did pull mine and get me back in the line from the first check cashing date.

[huggytree]

from what i understand an individual is 2-4 weeks quicker than a trust......

 

ive got other things to look forward to...looks like ill be getting a call from Lage next week for my Mac 10 upper...been on the list for 5 months.....so ill have a new upper to shoot soon if my Uzi is another month out

 

i look back at the NFA and see guys used to wait over a year at one point....so my situation is still better than it has been in the past.....something many here have probably gone through

[huggytree]

just looked at the NFA chart tonight under individual form 4.....your story is not the rare one....they at around 4 months still on average it appears.....the Form 4 trust is at 6.5-7 months now

 

most of the stamps are around the middle of Feb checks cashed right now......i was shocked to see such a dramatic difference........isnt there job just to look the form over and make sure things are correct......verify the trust exists......how does it take 2.5-3 extra months to check a trust vs an individual....especially when the final back ground check needed to possess the weapon takes 5 mins while you wait at your gun dealer after the stamp is issued.......the more i see the more i believe the whole process is designed to slow things down vs get things done efficiently.......anyone have insight to what they actually do when looking at a form 4? do they spend days looking at it....a week per form 4? do they spend 1 months looking at form 4 to a trust? i just dont see how 1 sheet of paper can take 2.5-4 months extra because its a trust and not an individual...

[Got Uzi]

Just got off the phone with ATF-NFA they are entering forms from June at this point in time so I'm sure that once they hit July's stack it will come to a halt on transfer times.