huggytree Posted July 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 just got notice from my dealer that Form 4's are now up to 6 months + now have 2 items at 5 months, so im anxious...+ my thompson is now pushed into the Fall or later for a Stamp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lone Ranger Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 Mr. Albert: Point made on contractors - both ATF and FBI utilize them although I agree that you will likely never see it happen with an entire aspect of an operation short of some sort of meltdown or term limits that leads to fiscal responsibility. Contractors tend to be held to a higher standard than government employees at least from what I have seen. For example, take your pick of scandal in recent years - ATF, VA, IRS, GSA - if contracted employees had been involved, "discipline" would take a different, more effective form than for the gov employees. Currently, if you call NFA you speak to a contractor (reduced the # of hours examiners were on the phone). Also, starting roughly 2011, you may have heard the term "Research Assistant" or "RA" - also contract, for the purpose of trying to weed out corrections to be made before it gets to an examiner - as are the data entry personnel. FBI is somewhat similar in that if you acquire a firearm from a dealer that uses the phone, it goes to a contracted call center. The contractor sees no criminal history records, only gets an indication of auto proceed in which case the dealer gets the NTN and adios or transferred to the FBI where an employee reviews the response and tries to make a determination and if unsuccessful, it goes into a queue where a research group takes it over. If one could get it privatized, it may be short term pain for long term gain. Every obstacle would all be there for the private company and people would need to be trained but .... maybe a hybrid of greater contractor % could be accomplished? Contracts are out of my wheelhouse, never gave it extensive thought before. Just so no misunderstanding, I am not saying the current crew are not decent workers. It's a different world than in years gone by when I was looking at a 4-6 month F3 or F5 transfer as a gift and volume was a fraction of the current level. A lot of people have forgotten those days or are now too green to know them. When the F4 average wait was around 30 days everyone sang their praises but when volume started ramping up in 2009 the happy times were over. I remember a dealer telling me in 2010 that a 90 day wait was going to kill the entire industry but that did not happen and more are being built and sold now than ever. jlmg - your wish is their command. For about two-three years now, compliance personnel have been brought to Martinsburg for 4 weeks at a time to do as you suggested..... part of why the wait on a F4 is currently averaging 6 instead of the previous 10 months, although I don't hold out hope it will remain there. The kiosk is a nice thought - downside I can see is toting a FPC scanner from WV to AZ and unless you can get instant results from both prints and NICS it's a moot point plus consider most would be two transfers - one from the seller to an AZ SOT (easy to do as long as there is a reliable decent speed internet service) then the non licensee part will die mid-stream. If e-forms could be used so the SOTs could do their own data entry then offer up a control number to be pulled from the flock and reviewed on-site - maybe? I am a computer idiot so do not know about accessing the back end of the program remotely. You might consider bringing that one up when you are at an event with NFA supervisors present. I don't know how reliable they have been going to SAR the last couple of years, and I think the KC attendance has died off but one of the Orchid or NSSF events is usually a good draw as well as SHOT. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsonlmg41 Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 (edited) OK LR, so now you are making a mockery of me? I signed up 6/26 for eforms and filed the first one that day. Last night as I'm typing the post, the "submitted" email notification comes in. This morning, timed at 9:19 my form 1 MG reactivation is approved. I have other mailed in MG transfers in the system for months that are pushing 5 months (about typical I guess) but I now have to admit 3 weeks may be a record time in all the years I've been doing this? Maybe this is an anomaly but I guess I'm sold on the efile thing. I'm going to assume other forms will be available in the future. We may be on the rubber stamp conveyor belt after all? I was typing as you were posting. Nice to see one of my ideas is not in the idiot zone. I appreciate you filling us in with the backstories. I'm now more optimistic that when the current rush subsides in a few months we'll still see an improvement long term with some of what you've outlined. Edited July 21, 2016 by johnsonlmg41 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 Mr. Albert: Point made on contractors - both ATF and FBI utilize them although I agree that you will likely never see it happen with an entire aspect of an operation short of some sort of meltdown or term limits that leads to fiscal responsibility. Contractors tend to be held to a higher standard than government employees at least from what I have seen. For example, take your pick of scandal in recent years - ATF, VA, IRS, GSA - if contracted employees had been involved, "discipline" would take a different, more effective form than for the gov employees. Currently, if you call NFA you speak to a contractor (reduced the # of hours examiners were on the phone). Also, starting roughly 2011, you may have heard the term "Research Assistant" or "RA" - also contract, for the purpose of trying to weed out corrections to be made before it gets to an examiner - as are the data entry personnel. FBI is somewhat similar in that if you acquire a firearm from a dealer that uses the phone, it goes to a contracted call center. The contractor sees no criminal history records, only gets an indication of auto proceed in which case the dealer gets the NTN and adios or transferred to the FBI where an employee reviews the response and tries to make a determination and if unsuccessful, it goes into a queue where a research group takes it over. If one could get it privatized, it may be short term pain for long term gain. Every obstacle would all be there for the private company and people would need to be trained but .... maybe a hybrid of greater contractor % could be accomplished? Contracts are out of my wheelhouse, never gave it extensive thought before. Just so no misunderstanding, I am not saying the current crew are not decent workers. It's a different world than in years gone by when I was looking at a 4-6 month F3 or F5 transfer as a gift and volume was a fraction of the current level. A lot of people have forgotten those days or are now too green to know them. When the F4 average wait was around 30 days everyone sang their praises but when volume started ramping up in 2009 the happy times were over. I remember a dealer telling me in 2010 that a 90 day wait was going to kill the entire industry but that did not happen and more are being built and sold now than ever. jlmg - your wish is their command. For about two-three years now, compliance personnel have been brought to Martinsburg for 4 weeks at a time to do as you suggested..... part of why the wait on a F4 is currently averaging 6 instead of the previous 10 months, although I don't hold out hope it will remain there. The kiosk is a nice thought - downside I can see is toting a FPC scanner from WV to AZ and unless you can get instant results from both prints and NICS it's a moot point plus consider most would be two transfers - one from the seller to an AZ SOT (easy to do as long as there is a reliable decent speed internet service) then the non licensee part will die mid-stream. If e-forms could be used so the SOTs could do their own data entry then offer up a control number to be pulled from the flock and reviewed on-site - maybe? I am a computer idiot so do not know about accessing the back end of the program remotely. You might consider bringing that one up when you are at an event with NFA supervisors present. I don't know how reliable they have been going to SAR the last couple of years, and I think the KC attendance has died off but one of the Orchid or NSSF events is usually a good draw as well as SHOT. The Lone Ranger, Very insightful response. Thanks again for all you bring to the board. David Albertdalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougStump Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 For what it's worth ($0.23), I just called to see if my form 4 had gone pending, but it was not in the computer yet. Nice lady said they were still entering forms from mid April. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z4lunch Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 I called end of June and I got the same response. They are 10 weeks behind . The gal told me to call the beginning of Sept. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lone Ranger Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 jlmg: no connection to that timely approval, although I should take credit for it so as to attain online guru status. RE; your kiosk idea - yeah, doable with e-forms not so with tax forms and FPCs. Here's the ugly reality though: Until the alleged volume (see, I'm getting better - not even claiming it actually exists now) subsides or more examiners come on line to process them it would just be a gimmick that would not speed anything up except for the people at the show. For the last 5 years, anything given to one group must necessarily be taken from another so the employees that would be away from the office doing transfers for show attendees would not be working pending apps for everyone else that may have been waiting longer. One positive might be that said employees get rare, direct contact with their clientele with reduced impact to overall production. Not a bad thing IMO. SAR West would be a primo place to try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted July 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2016 i was told 4 months when i bought my guns, then noticed the ATF said 5 months on their voice message....tonight decided to call on my latest FA im waiting on....the voicemail now says 6 months......i didnt bother waiting for an operator to ask since im 1 month away now........im guessing next month it will say 7 months....how long until it says 12 months? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougStump Posted July 22, 2016 Report Share Posted July 22, 2016 Inflation stinks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timkel Posted July 23, 2016 Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 (edited) The NFA branch is just incapable of improving wait time in house. Currently 6 months ++ seems to be the average. Back in the 70's the wait time averaged 3-6 months. I still have the stamps to prove it. While they may be staffing up to handle volume, the wait time will remain the same.Wheather it is the NFA, VA or Obamacare, the only way to improve wait times is to contract out. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/timkel24102410/stuff/gov%20worker_zpsdtth47tf.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/timkel24102410/stuff/professions-work-workers-works-paperwork-lazy-29603357_low_zpsl8dizknu.jpg Edited July 23, 2016 by timkel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ppgcowboy Posted July 23, 2016 Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 I called yesterday, they said six months and are now just entering stuff from Feb into the Computer, what does that mean? This upsets me to no end knowing by initial submit was in Feb but my SOT er SOB did not put his signature on the papers and they were returned in April. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted July 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) I've got a uzi and a suppressor feb 24th. So I'm excited for 30 days from now. What I'm not excited about is a month ago is the atf recording was 5 months. I suspect my next nfa item will be 7-8 months. I still have 4 more in jail right now after the uzi and suppressor. Thinking my last nfa item will be in 2017 Edited July 24, 2016 by huggytree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normal1959 Posted July 24, 2016 Report Share Posted July 24, 2016 I don't mind the wait.Spread the fun out. I always try to have something in life to look forward to. I also only buy from dealers near a beach I make a vacation out of picking the NFA stuff up. I am also more excited about the weapon 2 months before I get it, than 2 months after. WTF.Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwiifirearms Posted July 25, 2016 Report Share Posted July 25, 2016 Maybe this issue is that whenever they get a little faster the shorter wait times drive up demand, which makes them slower again. I think if it wasn't for the wait many more people would buy suppressors and SBRs. It makes sense that more people are willing to wait when they here forms are taking 3-4 months, which drives it back up to 5-6 months. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lone Ranger Posted July 27, 2016 Report Share Posted July 27, 2016 Be pleasantly surprised if wait time do not go up again. Lots of people dog piled on to avoid background checks. What remains to be seen is if or how much of a tidal wave comes in now that there is no more permission slip from local LE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Uzi Posted July 28, 2016 Report Share Posted July 28, 2016 I called the other day and inquired about the wait times, to which I was told that they are indeed entering Form 1's and F4's from Feb. The gentleman also told me that once the check is cashed it will be at least 6 months past that as to when I "might" see the form approval. This pretty much means that it will be a 7-8 month turn around. I'm sorry but this is ridiculous, the down side to the NFA machine gun game is that you have to spend thousands of dollars and then wait who knows how long to have anything to show for it. I could be dead by the time the transfer is finished. I agree with statements made above-if suppressor, SBR, and SBS were taken out of the system as to how they are done now, the wait time would be greatly reduced. The system is broken and is long overdue for a repair..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lone Ranger Posted July 29, 2016 Report Share Posted July 29, 2016 If you told people they had to pay for their car and wait 6 months to drive it off the lot they would have a cow. If the hollyweird stigma could be overcome, removing suppressors would be huge. Flash bangs can be removed in a second with no congressional action at all.... but ..... once government takes territory, it rarely cedes it willingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brassmagnet Posted July 29, 2016 Report Share Posted July 29, 2016 Indeed - if suppressors and SBR's were set aside in a different category, wouldn't that take over 50% of the paperwork they have to go through off the table??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted July 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2016 when you look at the NFA Tracker you have to go through PAGES to find a Machine Gun....using it as a guide id say 97% are Suppressors and SBR's... i still dont get why there is a law on SBR's...what is the danger? Suppressors i believe will eventually be removed..maybe in my lifetime if things keep going as they are....guns will come with them built into the gun itself....at some point it will be acceptable as it is not a shocking thing like a FA.....when i shoot a suppressor at the local in door range not many people look....when i shoot 1,100 rpm Mac 10 everyone looks and comes to the glass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnshooter Posted July 30, 2016 Report Share Posted July 30, 2016 Not to worry.One of the presidential candidates has already promised that she will make government more helpful to the people. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted July 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2016 more helpful to her 51% that love her and cry when she talks....a living hell to the 49% who will vote against her and feel she is the Devil im going to have 1 or 2 NFA items coming after she becomes President....waiting for her to raise the stamp to $10k on day 1 of her presidency Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Uzi Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 Just checked with my bank a couple minutes ago and my $200 check had cleared on 07/28/16 so according to ATF I should see my transfer 6 months from now.....16 days to cash the check isn't that bad compared to other times I've seen or heard of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted August 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 its a 6 month wait NOW.....last month it was a 5 month wait......that month # changes every month....so i would not expect the 6 months they say NOW to apply in 6 months....my latest is from Feb 24th and another Feb 28th.....im expecting to hear something the end of this month (6 months)......when i applied in Feb the wait was 4 months.... Hillary will be in office for months before you see your NFA item depending on how fast she moves to pack the court and issue executive orders you may never see your item my last one was 6-3-16...im not expecting to see it until 2-3-16 or later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted August 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 the recording says dont bother them until after its been 6 months now...do they get annoyed if you stay on the line and ask anyways? im urged out of curiosity and boredom (work is slow) to check on my Uzi the gun i want the most (the thompson) wont be until November + Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HB of CJ Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 (edited) My second post on this excellent forum. In Oregon "instant back ground checks" usually can be conducted by phone in about 3 minutes. Usually. We have a political situation up here in Oregon BUT that is another subject. If instant identification for a firearm transfer can only take 3 minutes by phone, why has not the BATFE done the same thing? In the past our stamps have taken almost 9 months. No way to run a railroad fur sures. But this is our reality. A lot of corrective action is required. Is the system politically driven? Yes it is. Can we change it? Yes, if we really want to. Easy to belly ache and not take any corrective action. We are trying. Respectfully. Edited by HB: Added one word. Edited August 5, 2016 by HB of CJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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