Refinish Or Not

[AC556]

I know there are some transferable Colt Thompson guns that are in poor or very poor condition. These guns would not be as collectable as guns rated higher.

Do you consider refinishing the wood and metal?

Do you leave it as is and consider it part of the history of the gun?

What effect will refinishing have on the value of a gun in poor original condition?

Edited May 31, 2006 by AC556

[Norm]

I consider a gun's "wear" as part of it's history. I am speaking of asthetics.

 

If internal parts were worn and posed a danger, I would replace those.

 

Also, PD markings are part of it's history, also.

 

Just my $.02.

 

Norm

 

[philasteen]

Never refinish. A C&R gun is always worth more in original 0% finish than when refinished.

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

I know we have crossed this bridge before on the board, but if the original bluing is all but gone and there is substantial pitting, and rust, which is only going to get worse, then a refinish is in the best interest of preserving the weapon. Look what a refinish did for Grand Central Station and The Statue of Liberty, not to mention countless works of art.

 

There is no reason to refinish the original wood unless some toad painted over it. or there is water damage. Of course if one did refinish the metal and left the wood alone, the contrast would undermine the overall appearance.

 

As absurdly garish as some of the PD markings are, it would be impossible to remove them without diminishing the original finish. I'm not sure what historical attributes these markings have on the TSMG since the original PD that purchased the Colt TSMG is easily researched.

 

If the weapon in question is a real boat anchor, primarily from neglect, not because it's condition is the result of combat, or picked up character from righteous or nefarious employment, then a refinish supersedes the negligible corruption of the TSMG's original condition.

[TNKen]

QUOTE (Arthur Fliegenheimer @ May 31 2006, 05:24 PM)

As absurdly garish as some of the PD markings are, it would be impossible to remove them without diminishing the original finish.  I'm not sure what historical attributes these markings have on the TSMG since the original PD that purchased the Colt TSMG is easily researched.

Now, ya wouldn't be talking about the Mobile PD gun would you??? http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/tongue.gif

 

You guys talked me out of a refinish on it. Makes for nice conversation.

 

Ken

[TNKen]

I called the Mobile PD to see if they could tell me anything about its usage. Of course, no old timers around that could tell me anything. I'm sure it was probably dragged out as a show of force in the 60's and there are probably some pics around, but I don't know where to look.

 

I have grown quite attached to it. And no one has trouble picking it out. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif

 

 

Ken

[AC556]

Ken,

Can you post any pictures? I would like to see what it look like.

[TNKen]

Kinda hard to miss where it came from. I was going to refinish it, and these guys talked me out of it. Look left for a cool pic first, then below.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/TNKen/Thompson1928ACAOleftside.jpg

[Roland, Headless Thompson Gunner]

People restore vintage autos all the time. Ever see a scraped up, faded Packard or Dusemburg on display? I don't get what the big deal about cleaning up a vintage firearm is. Sure if its Custer's revolver pried from his cold dead fingers that's one thing but a neglected PD gun sitting in the arms locker for 40 years. I say make it look as pretty as it once was.

[sevengunner]

TNKen,

 

Compared to other hand-marked PD guns I've seen, the engraving on yours is quite uniform ... and the exposed metal hasn't "browned" over.

 

Is my perception of the picture distorted, or does it appear that the PD has incorrectly spelled "MOBILE" as "MOBILL", and incorrectly identified the model as "M1" in the engraving?

 

Sven

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

sevengunner,

 

Well, all those quirks just add more charm and character to the TSMG. Why should anyone expect a PD to know the nomenclature of a firearm in their arsenal? As far as correctly spelling the name of the city they reside in, those fumes from the Hoppe's bottle can really play havoc with the cerebral cortex of the brain.

 

Roland,

 

Every time one tries to compare autos to firearms there seems to be an outcry about apples and oranges. An original finish is preferred, but as you say, who takes a faded and cracked paint job to the Pebble Beach Concourse d' Elegance? As long as the firearm is advertised as a refinish by the owner/seller/refinisher then no harm done. No collector is going to engage in a restoration process unless the item in its current condition is aesthetically challenged.

[full auto 45]

He is my boss's restored Packard at Pebble Beach show.

 

http://www.ikelite.com/packards/pebblebeach.jpg

The "V" windshield Custom Dietrich is one of the most beautiful of all Packard models. The 904 Deluxe 8 graces the beautiful '32 fenders with prettier wheels and headlights than the twin six models.

 

Famed Packard artist Melbourne Brindle bought this car in 1948 and owned for about 25 years. His friend, Richard B. Wilder, owned until 1980. It was then restored for the present owner by Steve Gunder of Topeka, Kansas. It won its division at Pebble Beach and scored 100 points at the CCCA Grand Classic at that time.

 

[Jay Baker]

That automobile is what the term "motoring" was coined for. What a beautiful piece of machinery to enjoy a Sunday drive on a scenic highway.

[TNKen]

Well, in car collecting, there is a category called "survivor" Classic survivors oftentimes bring more than the refurbs. The 1965 Corvette 396 vert with 18,000 miles. In a survivor restoration, you can replace parts that have been replaced with NOS items, such as batteries, alternators, spark plugs, plug wires, etc.. All efforts are made to retain the existing original parts is made. Different than a decent drive with 100,000 miles that needs a full frame off resto.

 

Like a Thompson that has had an incorrect bolt added, refinished stocks, etc, but still retains the original finish on the receiver/barrel. Find a nice stock and bolt, and you're back in business.

 

Not sure where that leaves a gun like mine. Guess it is a personal decision. I've made the decision to leave mine as is. We had a Reising marked the same way, and I wish I had kept it.

 

On my gun, Mobile is spelled correctly, it is just a bad reflection.

 

Ken

[TSMGguy]

I would never have refinished any gun, but then became aquainted with PK's artistry. If the gun is not esthetically pleasing to you, why not refinish, especially if the gun is worn and nasty looking? In a few years, a properly rebuilt and overhauled gun will be indistinguishable from the original, and the value is probably enhanced. We have a local smith known far and wide for his artistry in refurbishing original Colt wheelguns. His work is astounding. When he's finished, the gun looks to be in original new condition. Why not?

[TNKen]

QUOTE (sevengunner @ Jun 1 2006, 11:20 PM)

TNKen, Compared to other hand-marked PD guns I've seen, the engraving on yours is quite uniform ... and the exposed metal hasn't "browned" over. Is my perception of the picture distorted, or does it appear that the PD has incorrectly spelled "MOBILE" as "MOBILL", and incorrectly identified the model as "M1" in the engraving? Sven

WOW, you are perceptive.

 

Went to the range today with some newbies (got rained out before we got to shoot) and took the '28. When I was unpacking it and wiping it down a while ago, looked closely at the lettering. The center horizontal mark in the "E" in MOBILE is missing.

 

GOOD EYE!! Never noticed that before.

 

Ken