PK Westies

[Ville28]

While I know that the Westies aren't as desirable to many like Colt's or original M1/M1A's, there always seems to be interest and appreciation for PK'd Westies. Is there a consensus on the value of a PK'd 1928 West Hurley? I have been watching the boards for quite a while and don't recall seeing one come up?

 

Thank you so much for the wealth of Thompson knowlege I have been able to glean from this boards discussions and FAQ's!

[T Hound]

PK'd? Do you mean Parkerized West Hurleys'?

[Ville28]

Actually those that have visited Paul Krogh at Diamond K to have any deficiencies corrected.

[T Hound]

Ah. Thanks for that clarification. Unfortunately I have no experience with that.

[Mike Hammer]

A W.H. Thompson that has been PK'd would be at the top of the heap as far a dollar value among Westies. Some other notable gunsmiths such as the Andrewski brothers have also improved the funtionality or appearance of existing out of the box W.H.Thompsons. If such gunsmithing is done to a W.H.owner's gun, it would behoove them to keep the receipts from the actual work done on them as it could make a difference in the asking/selling price of the gun. A new out of the box W.H. would not necessarily bring a higher price at market for those people actually purchasing one with the intent of shooting it, as more often than not those guns usually have to have the weaknesses in them corrected. As with any other gun, putting an exact or even ballpark price on a PK'd Westie is guesswork but suffice to say there would be a premium on them.

 

Mike Hammer

[Z3BigDaddy]

My question would be could you make your investment back out of it... Nobody ever talks prices on getting a gun PK'd for some reason.

[T Hound]

Good question. Hope somebody can answer because it has suddenly become very

interesting.

[Z3BigDaddy]

Crickets?

[darrylta]

I've got a WHurley 28 and M1 that are on PK's waiting list. I'm hoping the M1 will only need a face lift, the 28 will

require surgery unfortunately. I've resided to the fact that Pk's services will raise my cost basis on these guns to par or

higher than the historical GI Thompsons. The WHurleys will always bring less than the GI guns if the buyer is knowledgeable.

 

So,,,why go the PK route you ask?? In my case they will be my shooters and most likely be passed on to my sons.

If in he event they were sold by myself or family in the future,,the buyer would know with confidence that he was getting a functioning

Thompson. It really boils down to is being ethical I think, I can't use the excuse that I didn't know or was unaware of there maladies and willfully

sell them to an unknowing buyer.

 

It will be important to get PK's diamond stamp of approval on these guns. It's a testament to PK's skill that you rarely if ever see one of his

guns for sale. I've been on his waiting list for 4 years now,,I'm hoping to get by this hurdle this year.

 

My 2 cents,

Darryl

Edited March 6, 2013 by darrylta

[David]

At what point does it become worth the wait and time to not be able to shoot these guns, to just save up a little more an buy a correct GI/original gun from the start?

 

I get past years when there was a significant price difference, but now it seems WH thompsons are in their mid teens and some original guns have been sold aren't to further far on down the line.

 

But maybe I'm a buy what I want first and not a hang around and wait.

 

[TD.]

A West Hurley Thompson that has been re-manufactured by Paul Krogh should always sell higher than any other WH Thompson, including one that is "New in the Box." Aside from all the internal and external mechanical corrections and upgrades performed by PK, their is no comparison to the exterior appearance. The "deluxe bluing" option is suburb, almost show quality. This is why you do not see any on the market.

 

The reason you do not hear a lot about the cost to re-manufacture a WH Thompson is because each gun is different. The cost is between the owner and PK. I have never heard an owner complain. Again, it all depends on what is wrong with the gun, what parts are needed, how nice a blue job is requested, etc.

 

There is also no second choice when it comes to re-manufacturing a West Hurley. No one but PK repairs the Blish slots or locks. Any competent gunsmith can make a WH look pretty and probably function most of the time. However, as PK has stated on this Board, most WH Thompsons are internally eating themselves alive when fired. When a WH could be purchased for $400, you did not care if the receiver cracked. It is a different world today.

 

A WH Thompson is not for everyone. If the cost difference between a WH and WWII Thompson is only a few thousand dollars, spend the extra dollars for the WWII Thompson - every time. A WH Thompson has always been and will always be an entry level Thompson. When the price was in the 12K range, this allowed some people the option to make a purchase, get in PK's queue, and have a few additional years to save for PK's magic. Many WH owners made the purchase years ago when the prices were only a few thousand dollars (or less). The cost now for re-manufacture is almost minimal given what unmodified WH's are selling for. Each situation different.

 

Join The American Thompson Association (TATA) and come to the Show & Shoot this year. You will see several PK'd WH Thompson's on display.

[Gio]

TD I was waiting for you to chime in on this topic. You'r PK WH is the first one I had seen and it is a beautiful Thompson as well as a great shooter.

 

With PK's wait time and the higher cost of WH guns I agree it's worth the extra few bucks on the front end to buy a WWII gun. If you are as old as me by the time I got the WH back from PK I would be to old to enjoy or in the ground.

 

Frank

[TSMGguy]

Great answer by TD. I'd only agree that you don't often see PKed WH TSMGs come to market because when the gun is returned from Delta, CO it is often so much more than the somewhat crude gun that it was when it was produced.

 

I'd venture to guess that WH guns that have not been sorted out change hands more often than those that have because they were cheaply made and today are often less than functional. They're generally not much to look at, either. One with the Diamond K logo is not only reliable, it's often a very personal work of art, configured and finished exactly as the owner had envisioned.

 

Each of has probably has a few pieces that we'll never sell. One of mine is my PKed WH M1. PK is in a league all by himself.

 

Guys generally don't talk about what work by PK costs. The work on my gun was extensive. I provided almost all of the parts and the cost of the work itself (labor) was under $1,000 in 2005. This was a bargain in my estimation.

Edited March 6, 2013 by TSMGguy

[Chopper28]

i have a 28 WH that PK did his magic on several years ago. I bought the gun NIB in 1977 for $650. When the gun was returned to me from Paul it was unbelievable. He went completely through the gun and fixed all its ills including the Bliss lock slots. The gun looks new, shoots 100% reliably in .45 and with Merle's .22 kit. The action is as smooth as butter. To me it was well worth the expense and the wait but my situation was different from someone who buys today. All I can say is PK is a perfectionist. If you send a gun to him {any gun} when it comes back it will be as good as it can possibly be. His waiting list is longer now and his prices are higher than when I had the work performed but I have never regretted it. He is without question the best at correcting the WH's.

 

Just my.02

[Shattered]

A W.H. Thompson that has been PK'd would be at the top of the heap as far a dollar value among Westies. Some other notable gunsmiths such as the Andrewski brothers have also improved the funtionality or appearance of existing out of the box W.H.Thompsons. If such gunsmithing is done to a W.H.owner's gun, it would behoove them to keep the receipts from the actual work done on them as it could make a difference in the asking/selling price of the gun. A new out of the box W.H. would not necessarily bring a higher price at market for those people actually purchasing one with the intent of shooting it, as more often than not those guns usually have to have the weaknesses in them corrected. As with any other gun, putting an exact or even ballpark price on a PK'd Westie is guesswork but suffice to say there would be a premium on them. Mike Hammer

 

Andrewski Brothers? I didn't know Stan had more than one son...

[T Hound]

 

 

 

There is also no second choice when it comes to re-manufacturing a West Hurley. No one but PK repairs the Blish slots or locks. Any competent gunsmith can make a WH look pretty and probably function most of the time. However, as PK has stated on this Board, most WH Thompsons are internally eating themselves alive when fired. When a WH could be purchased for $400, you did not care if the receiver cracked. It is a different world today.

 

So what kind of crap metal was the West Hurley made of such that it would crack or "eat itself alive"? I assume that PK repairs require some creative welding of the receiver on the inside?

Edited March 7, 2013 by T Hound

[ThompsonCrazy]

This link has some great photos. Love the lock ramp repair photos.

 

http://www.weaponscache.com/forum/gun-reviews/7825-paul-kroghs-west-hurley-thompson-repairs.html

 

TC

 

[T Hound]

Yup, creative welding and remilling. Excellent pictures and example of Paul's work. I am

impressed.

[ThompsonCrazy]

Looks like the ramps are opened up oversized, filler pieces are silver soldered in and then the ramps are milled to spec.

 

It is certainly an impressive show of Paul's skills and enginuity.

 

TC

[mnshooter]

 

 

 

There is also no second choice when it comes to re-manufacturing a West Hurley. No one but PK repairs the Blish slots or locks. Any competent gunsmith can make a WH look pretty and probably function most of the time. However, as PK has stated on this Board, most WH Thompsons are internally eating themselves alive when fired. When a WH could be purchased for $400, you did not care if the receiver cracked. It is a different world today.

 

So what kind of crap metal was the West Hurley made of such that it would crack or "eat itself alive"? I assume that PK repairs require some creative welding of the receiver on the inside?

 

Another post listed a metal analysis of a Hurley as being 12L14 steel -the play dough of steels.

Soft, leaded, very easy to machine and finish. Just don't ask any more of it.

[mnshooter]

Looks like the ramps are opened up oversized, filler pieces are silver soldered in and then the ramps are milled to spec.

 

It is certainly an impressive show of Paul's skills and enginuity.

 

TC

 

Each time I see examples of PK's beautiful insert repairs, I think they should be on the outside so everyone can admire them.

[TSMGguy]

I hope that Paul will weigh in on this thread.

 

IIRC, the problem with the WH Blish slots was that they were improperly placed and milled at the wrong angle. There was nothing inherently wrong with the steel used for the receivers.

[T Hound]

 

IIRC, the problem with the WH Blish slots was that they were improperly placed and milled at the wrong angle. There was nothing inherently wrong with the steel used for the receivers.

 

That's good news at least. So basically it is the same ol' issue of machining/quality control for WH.

Edited March 7, 2013 by T Hound

[emmagee1917]

Yep.

[TSMGguy]

WH originally omitted a number of the machining operations in my WH M1 reciever. Paul neatly added them, bringing the gun into GI specs. He also radiused the upper receiver exterior so the gun is now to GI specs throughout. It no longer has that characteristic WH slab sided appearence. All of this probably made it slightly lighter, as well.

 

The gun, while appearing LNIB when I got it, had clearly had operating problems from day one as someone had attacked the feed ramp with what looked to be a Dremel tool, ruining it. Don't know how he did it, but PK built the ramp back up in steel and smoothed and finished it perfectly. You cannot see where the work was done. The gun runs like a watch today, at an even 750 rpm.

 

I have to say a word about Paul's refinishing. I opted to have the gun finished as the M1 TSMG originally was, that is, blued, with a matte receiver and frame. Most people, when rebluing, will tend to over buff, often leaving a surface that is wavey or overly polished with the markings at least partially obliterated. Not Paul. The new finish is perfect, and the roll markings look untouched, retaining their crisp edges, original depth, and characteristic slightly raised edges where metal was displaced during the marking process. Incredible.

Edited March 8, 2013 by TSMGguy