IRA Thompson

[gunhistorian]

The thompsongunireland website does not state specifically where the gun is. There are four museums operated by the Ireland Defense Force. It probably is in the Collins Barracks Museum in Cork, but this is just a guess. The caption to the photo on the website states "found on the floor of a water well where it had been abandoned after the Irish Civil War ended in 1923." That is not, of course, saying that it was abandoned in 1923! Thanks, Michael, for the photos of the magazine. It does, indeed, look home-made, but what a great job and fine craftsmanship. . .

[1921A]

765 21D

 

Is there a legible serial number visible on the gun you refer to as #1234? I'm curious because Colt Thompson #1234 was part of my collection for more than a decade. It's a documented Baldwin-Felts Detective Agency gun and now resides with a new owner in Virginia, I believe. Perhaps he will weigh in on this with a picture. If the gun in your picture is marked 1234 then we have a very interesting situation.

 

1921A

[m3bobby]

There was a 1928A1 with an IRA connection for sale in the UK recently. It had the serial ground away and it was said to be part of a consignment of captured guns sold off by HM Government to a film prop company in the 1970s. These were released onto the civilian market in the 1990s so I'm guessing (And it is just a guess) that it was Bapty.

[765 21D]

765 21D

 

Is there a legible serial number visible on the gun you refer to as #1234? I'm curious because Colt Thompson #1234 was part of my collection for more than a decade. It's a documented Baldwin-Felts Detective Agency gun and now resides with a new owner in Virginia, I believe. Perhaps he will weigh in on this with a picture. If the gun in your picture is marked 1234 then we have a very interesting situation.

 

1921A

Hi 1921A

 

Irish Swords: How The Thompson SMG Came To Ireland

 

I believe the website (thefirarmbolog.com) have made a mistake with the serial number as it is number 1234 in the photo caption, but changes to 1235 in the written text. I am sorry for any confusion in my post. The funny thing is I already knew about the mistake with the serial number as I have my own database on the 1921's that were smuggled into Ireland, but I have it on my backup hard drive.

 

Regards

 

D

 

Our other Irish gun is serial 1235, a later purchase, being one of 300 shipped on the 24th of August 1923 to M.Fitzgerald Co. New York City, N.Y. (thanks again to Mr Herigstad). Though not quite as historic as 212, it is the more original example of the iconic Model of 1921, featuring the original selector markings, knurled controls, and the correct working parts. - See more at: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/05/19/irish-swords-thompson-smg-ireland/#sthash.IcYwGzhF.dpuf

Edited December 17, 2014 by 765 21D

[m3bobby]

Heres that 1928A1 I mentioned

 

http://www.gunstar.co.uk/thompson-1928a1-pistol-hand-guns-for-sale-in-scottish-border/Other-Military-Guns/717770

[765 21D]

Hi,

 

This is my IRA 1928A1 it's one of about four that I believe came from bapty's

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Blish Lock has been ground down to make the gun fire at a faster rate. However, this was a bad idea as the Buttstock has cracked.

 

Here are some better photos of the one i believe is in the link

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 14, 2015 by 765 21D

[gunhistorian]

What is the hex-head screw in the butt stock for? Wonder where the IRA picked this up? Also, it looks like a serial number was restamped with an S prefix. . . Or is this a British serial number? Just curious. . . Nothing better to do than to ponder impossible and unanswerable questions. . .

[765 21D]

What is the hex-head screw in the butt stock for? Wonder where the IRA picked this up? Also, it looks like a serial number was restamped with an S prefix. . . Or is this a British serial number? Just curious. . . Nothing better to do than to ponder impossible and unanswerable questions. . .

Hi gunhistorian,

 

The hex head screw is a fix for a stress crack in the butstock that I believe was caused by the Blish Lock being ground down. Thompsons were still being shipped to the iRA in the 1960's and 70's. I am not sure about the new numbers but I think those numbers were given to the guns after they were captured. It is interesting to note that both of the Thompson's buttstocks have an X carved into them.

[765 21D]

Here are some images of Colt Thompson gun number 936. This gun is one of two IRA Thompson guns in the imperial War Museum.

 

 

 

 

 

There are no photos of the serial number side of this 1921 (All credit for these photos to the Imperial War Museum London England)

Edited April 14, 2015 by 765 21D

[765 21D]

Brand new photos of IRA Colt Thompson number 940. USA looks double stamped in the address? You will only see this when you save the photo, but It could be an error with the photo.

 

 

Edited April 14, 2015 by 765 21D

[Lammerlaw]

After a year or two absence I am back! I forgot that I was a member of this site. I am well aware of the secret serial numbers but even so cannot view enough of the one on the back of the barrel to positively ID it - I have tried mirrors and plasticine to get an impression and all I positively know is that all three numbers have rounded tops so will be 8 or 9 in all probability. The bottom section of the receiver did have a different serial number so it was apparent that the guns were disassembled and reassembled when the numbers were being obliterated or shortly after. I say this because the old scratch marks on the bottom and top match so that it would be safe to say that the top and bottom sections of the receiver have been together for the duration of the guns existence.

 

I strongly suspect that most if not all of the IRA Thompsons are the same in that the components got mixed at some time early in their history but in most cases this could be neither proven nor disproven..

 

Mine comes with two original mags, an unmarked one and one with patent dates to Jan 11 1921.

Edited August 2, 2016 by Lammerlaw

[giantpanda4]

Welcome back!

 

Very interesting observations. It means that gun is definitely wearing a barrel from under 1000 S/N. Three digits, all rounded letters... can you get some pics? I used a dental mirror and was able to see mine.

 

That is a very interesting gun. I know there are a few more Irish Swords in New Zealand as well. Must be nice to be able to bring them into your country.

 

Thanks!

[Lammerlaw]

Photos including the two original magazines that came with it.

[ron_brock]

Photos including the two original magazines that came with it.

Into Civil War guns too!!! Sweet photos.

 

Ron

[Lammerlaw]

Three more photos of my IRA Thompson gun

[full auto 45]

4 Irish swords in New Zealand. A unique photo of four "Irish Swords". All Brothers in arms. Serial numbers are 708, 586. 389 & 993.

Note the "first 100" Aut-Ord-Co bullet logo on the top of the receivers.

 

 

http://www.mikesmachineguns.com/files/4_Irish_swords.jpg

 

http://www.mikesmachineguns.com/files/irish_sword_side_by_side.jpg

 

http://www.mikesmachineguns.com/files/Irish_sword_2.jpg

 

http://www.mikesmachineguns.com/files/Irish_sword_1.jpg

 

[765 21D]

The Imperial War Museum London listing :

 

383 5/18/21 Amer Rail Exp CO. N.Y. G.G Rourke 2nd Shipment (Old listing)

 

Now the online collections lists these ex IRA 21 Thompson numbers

 

880 6/7/21 Amer Rail Exp CO. N.Y. G.G Rourke 2nd Shipment

 

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30029260

 

This next one is really interesting, as the site claims it is gun number 936

 

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30029433

 

936 is listed in The Ultimate Thompson book "Home to Mother" serial numbers listing on page 716, as an order for Santa Maria Cal Police Dept. What does Gordon's book say about this early 1921? (I made a mistake here, as Thompson number 935 is the Santa Maria gun)

 

This was the old photo of the gun the museum claims is 936. I am inclined to believe the museum are correct about the serial number.

 

Edited September 4, 2016 by 765 21D

[joseph12297]

Hi

 

Hope all is well, have not spoken to you in a while.

 

Gordon's last book has a blank line for 936, no info whatsoever

 

Larry A

[TD.]

Please double check: My copy of The Ultimate Thompson Book on Page 716 lists NO 935 as going to the Santa Maria, California Police Department. No information is listed for NO 936.

 

​It just may be NO 936 at the Imperial War Museum!

 

Edited September 4, 2016 by TD.

[765 21D]

Yes TD you are right 936 is blank, that print is so small to my eyes

 

How about 880? Does Gordon's book have anything on that one because I have not seen it listed at the IWM until now.

 

D

[765 21D]

Hi Larry,

 

I am doing OK, but most of my Thompson's have been sold, due to the EU bs

 

D

[joseph12297]

Sorry to hear the EU continues to infringe on law abiding citizens rights

 

Gordon's book has 880, shipped 6/7/21, as one of the American Railway guns, seized on the "Eastside" ship 6/14/21.

 

Donation from the British War Office. Imperial War Museum, Lambeth Road, London 1994

 

Larry

[R/R Bull]

I have Colt number 935. I obtained this weapon from the Santa Maria PD over 35 years ago. Gordon H. Looked at it and said it was probably pulled from the rack for a single sale while the others made the trip to Ireland.

[765 21D]

Sorry to hear the EU continues to infringe on law abiding citizens rights

 

Gordon's book has 880, shipped 6/7/21, as one of the American Railway guns, seized on the "Eastside" ship 6/14/21.

 

Donation from the British War Office. Imperial War Museum, Lambeth Road, London 1994

 

Larry

Hi Larry,

 

Thanks for the information on 880, at least I know when they got 880 now.

 

This is the info that used to be on the IWM databse for 936?

 

History Note:

Part of the IRA's 1921 purchase of 495 Thompsons, which was the Auto-Ordnance Corporation's first major sale. Inferred from the serial number

Physical description

Firing pin cut, barrel drilled

 

The question is will the Thompson in the IWM be accepted as Thompson gun number 936 and will the database on this site be updated?

 

I don't know if any of the 3 ex IRA 1921 Thompsons are on display in the museum, but none of them were viewable the last time I went to the museum. I emailed the museum i n 2014 and I was told they were not currently on display, but the museum had plans to do something on the troubles in Ireland.

 

D

Edited September 4, 2016 by 765 21D

[765 21D]

I have Colt number 935. I obtained this weapon from the Santa Maria PD over 35 years ago. Gordon H. Looked at it and said it was probably pulled from the rack for a single sale while the others made the trip to Ireland.

It's nce to know you have Colt Thompson number 935!

 

D