Thompson 1928, or M1, or M1A1

[TD.]

Welcome to the Thompson forum. I see this is your first post. 

In 1983, Auto-Ordnance Corporation of West Hurley, New York manufactured 176 Model of 1928 Thompson submachine guns. The serial number range of these 176 guns was 2019A to 22258A. 

There is a lot of information about the West Hurley guns on this forum. If you have any particular questions, just let us know. If your not familiar with the two-piece West Hurley buffer pilots, then please inquire. You definitely do not want to fire a West Hurley with this original part installed. 

[TSMGguy]

20 minutes ago, SRT705 said:

Im trying to determine the date of manufacture of a West Hurley 1928 Thompson SMG. The serial number on the weapon is 2161A. I know that it is a very late date of manufacture but would like to know a little more. I have tried all the other links with no luck. Any assistance appreciated

The Thompson Submachine Gun ID Guide, Part II: The Auto-Ordnance, Bridgeport and Auto-Ordnance, West Hurley 1928 - Small Arms Review

[pstidan]

Scraped from the inter-web years ago:

[Doug Quaid]

On 10/8/2023 at 10:42 PM, WW2Gunlover said:

Thanks for all of the feed back.  I have done my research, I have the book American Thunder.  I want a WW2 era Thompson, simple as that.  Yes I know about the versions.  I don't need help with my budget with all due respect.  My questions was about dealers, not about how should I do this.  I appreciate all of your well intended input.  I am trying to find credible dealers in which I can consider one of the various versions of the Thompson.  I am open to all of them that are WW2 era.

When you ask who is a reputable dealer, the answers you get are going to be the large, nationally known dealers who have been in business for a long while.

https://dealernfa.com/

https://www.davidspiwak.com/guns/

https://www.atfmachinegun.com/

Maybe the other guys can think of more big name dealers.  Someone else mentioned the auction sites like RIA, but they tend to draw the private jet crowd.

The problem is that the supply of Thompsons for sale is so incredibly thin, that you're cutting yourself off from 95% of the supply of guns if you stick with a handful of national dealers.

Also, most sellers won't sell their guns through a dealer, because they'll get paid wholesale price for their guns.  Would you take a 50% hit on a $30,000 gun?

There is no point in any of us listing small dealers that we have done business with, because we only have one data point to go on with respect to trustworthiness, and it's irrelevant anyway, because the likelihood of them having what you want (at random) is zero.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Doug Quaid

[Dpedersen]

Guns come up for sale all the time here and on sturmgewer. Basically same as this site, run by David as well, that is just a market place. I found my Colt on here, you just have to do your research, which is the same as when buying through a dealer. You will probably pay a lot less through an individual. Dealers are trying to make a profit on top of their costs. I paid a whole lot less then I would have for my Colt had I gone through an auction or a dealer. There is a few good looking WW2 era thompsons that have come up for sale on sturmgewer in that last few months and look to be still available. Try there.

[Rekraps]

On 10/5/2023 at 9:10 AM, Doug Quaid said:

I have to disagree with you a tad.  If Vectors were widely accepted as the same as IMI SMGs, then they wouldn't sell for half as much money.

Don't confuse converted IMI semi-autos with actual IMI SMGs.  

Vector did a heck of a job turning those Group Industries flats into working guns, but at the end of the day, the flats have dimensional errors that had to be corrected and Vector's welding was sub-par.

I bought my Vector UZI new-in-the-box and it soon broke both the trunnion welds and the rear plate weld.

I sent it to one "reputable" gunsmith who botched the repair, then another "reputable" gunsmith who botched the repair, and finally to an actual competent gunsmith who sat on it for 6 months.

Now it runs great, but if I could have got my hands on an actual IMI UZI SMG for only 25% more money, I would have.  

It's good to have a WH ammo burner, but just make sure you see it run first.  And don't overpay.



 

Wow! I've been at the beach for the past week and look at what i missed! Good information all....

 

Now, what was this thread about?  

[WW2Gunlover]

I have read American Thunder, I understand the different versions.  I appreciate your input, but I am not looking for advice on how to collect.  I am inquiring about sellers that some of you have dealt with that are credible.  I have googled of course, and have found some good some not good sources.  So anyone that has purchased with success from a seller, I would be interested in hearing about that source.  Thanks again for the responses.

[Doug Quaid]

okay

I bought an M16A2 from these guys, they seemed fine:

https://chestercountyarmory.com/

I'm not sure what good this will do you, considering the general parameters of the Thompson market.



 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Doug Quaid

[mbc230]

On 10/10/2023 at 7:34 AM, Dpedersen said:

Guns come up for sale all the time here and on sturmgewer. Basically same as this site, run by David as well, that is just a market place. I found my Colt on here, you just have to do your research, which is the same as when buying through a dealer. You will probably pay a lot less through an individual. Dealers are trying to make a profit on top of their costs. I paid a whole lot less then I would have for my Colt had I gone through an auction or a dealer. There is a few good looking WW2 era thompsons that have come up for sale on sturmgewer in that last few months and look to be still available. Try there.

What do you consider to be a good deal in today's prices for a Colt? I am curious is all. Thank you.

[Doug Quaid]

On 10/10/2023 at 8:34 AM, Dpedersen said:

Guns come up for sale all the time here and on sturmgewer. Basically same as this site, run by David as well, that is just a market place. I found my Colt on here, you just have to do your research, which is the same as when buying through a dealer. You will probably pay a lot less through an individual. Dealers are trying to make a profit on top of their costs. I paid a whole lot less then I would have for my Colt had I gone through an auction or a dealer. There is a few good looking WW2 era thompsons that have come up for sale on sturmgewer in that last few months and look to be still available. Try there.

I don't think OP understands the situation.  

If you want to buy a classic corvette, there are car dealers who specialize in that.  There are dozens of little Vette dealerships that have 50+ classic Vettes in the lot and they're all sort of networked.  If you call one up, and say you want a minty 1962, they'll put their feelers out and find one.

But people who collect higher-end firearms tend to hang on to them for decades and the supply of Thompsons is tiny.  So they hardly ever come up for sale.  (Although the supply of WHs seems to be pretty decent, you see them for sale fairly often.)

There have been times when I have looked at all the usual websites like gunbroker and I could not find one single pre-1945 Thompson for sale in the USA anywhere.  

So the thing to do is find a Thompson you want for sale, and THEN research to see if the seller is legit and reliable.  

For example, I got my two Thompsons from a small dealer.   He advertised them on gunbroker.   The dealer was VERY low volume, hardly more than a hobby collector himself.  I went to his house and checked him out, and he was fine.  Should I not have bought them because he's a small dealer that none of you guys ever heard of?

Anyway, the OP will soon figure it out.   The world is what it is.


 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Doug Quaid

[Got Uzi]

If you want the “reputation” of the “well known dealer” then you’ll pay another 10-20% for it. Ruben is a known entity, but his prices are some of the highest on the open market (short of the RIA, Morphy’s, and other auction houses) but if someone feels comfortable only buying from someone like that, then they better be good with bellying up to the bar and paying til it’s painful. 

[Rekraps]

On 10/14/2023 at 4:34 PM, Doug Quaid said:

okay

I bought an M16A2 from these guys, they seemed fine:

https://chestercountyarmory.com/

I'm not sure what good this will do you, considering the general parameters of the Thompson market.



 

I have bought from Chester County Armory, Spiwak, Ruben, NFA sales, Mid-West Tactical and found them all to be reliable. I've also used brokers such as Jerry Prasser. Again, no issues. 

As with everything of value that you buy, do your research and determine exactly what you want; a shooter or a collectible, just the gun or a rig, C&R or modern. All these things are personal in nature and each person on this site has different tastes.

[johnsonlmg41]

You  could always try some shows like SAR.  There are a number of dealers that sell direct without websites, and move more guns at better prices than many of the "internet" dealers.  You see the goods, one on one, and they are generally knowledgeable folks, unlike some of the "internet" dealers that have little knowledge, or broker stuff they've never seen.  This may come as a shock to some here, but the majority of MG's don't sell on the internet, though it's getting close to 50/50 these days I believe.  Just because you didn't find it on the net and that's the only place you looked, you're just lazy or not that interested in the hobby?

Recon ordnance is not a broker, he sells what he has in inventory, which he generally does not publicize other than sometimes on gunbroker.

The supply of Thompsons is pretty large relative to many other MG's.  They come up for sale frequently.  Not MAC, UZI, or M16 frequently, but there's plenty in the registry.  Guys hold on to all this stuff, because most of us  enjoy it and have no reason to sell, often other than death.....or approaching.   Or you lose interest and decide to effectively trade into something else.  One M1A1 I traded off years ago for an MP40.

There is a 1928 C+R gun I know that's soon moving privately.  It will be at market price, but likely never make the internet.  You would need funds available immediately, this is a hobby that doesn't wait when things come up.  Guys that wait......generally wait forever and get priced out.   You can read countless stories on the net of "back when X was selling for X, I should have bought one, but thought they would be around and not go up so fast?"    Good luck in your search!

 

[WW2Gunlover]

Thanks for all of the input, that helps a lot.  Some of the dealers mentioned I have seen online.  Others I have not.  So I appreciate some credible sources that I can follow to see if I can find a good weapon to start my collection.  Thanks all!!

[Rimcrew]

Don’t discount buying from an individual.  I did and could not be more pleased with the transaction.  It will likely save you a bundle, and the paperwork is easy to complete and submit.

[imageaudio]

Another point to consider is that if you buy from some of the dealers or the auction houses such as RIA, you'll also have to pay sales tax if your not purchasing as a resell item.   Where I live in Texas, the sales tax is 8.25% which equates to an additional $2,475 on a $30,000 gun.    I believe most transactions conducted between individuals are concluded without any sales tax?