MP40 Grips Not Fitting

[brodie74]

Hello, first post and hopefully the topic is OK. I bought a Wilson MP40 tube gun on what looks like a pretty good parts kit. However, the grips I have with the firearm dont seem to fit. They look like they should belong but they seem way off. 

The story is a little strange - I bought the firearm online from a reputable dealer. The pictures I saw all looked great including the attached grips. So the firearm transfers to my dealer (who I have used a good amount) - I go take a look and get the paperwork started and the grips had been removed and were next to it. Seemed a little weird - they said the firearm came that way so whatever - looked like everything was there and everything was good - didnt think that much of it at the time. So eventually firearms comes home and I have a moment to sit and put the grips on and they just dont fit. Or at least I cant get them to fit properly. I attached a few pictures (hopefully they are discernible). If I align them to what looks correct you can see it sits way too far back on the frame - pic Grip 1. And if I align it so the top and bottom indents align with the grip frame the front of the grip is in the trigger house and the front edge hangs over about 1/8" over the front of the grip frame - pic Grip 2. And the third is just the grips next to the frame. 

But long story short I was hoping someone might be able to tell me if Im doing a bonehead thing attaching them, or they are actually grips for a different type of firearm, or there is something wrong with my grip frame and Im going to need a gunsmith. Hopefully, its just a matter of needing a replacement pair of MP40 grips but I wanted to reach out before I buy anything else. 

Thanks 

Paul

[Rich.Urich]

Looks like they might be MP-38 grips.  I have found that MP-38 grips were mis-aligned when trying to put on MP40 lower.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Rich.Urich
spelling correction

[Rekraps]

They might be repro grips that were just made badly. Obviously they don't fit, so pack them away and order yourself some new ones! 

[Mike Hammer]

Nope. You need to contact the dealer and he needs to make this right. You based your purchase on the photos that shows the grips on the gun fitting properly. Looks like somebody is playing it fast and loose here. What dealer did this come from?

[Rekraps]

14 hours ago, Mike Hammer said:

Nope. You need to contact the dealer and he needs to make this right. You based your purchase on the photos that shows the grips on the gun fitting properly. Looks like somebody is playing it fast and loose here. What dealer did this come from?

Mike you are correct. First course of action is making the "sale" correct. 

[TSMGguy]

Pictured are original WWII gbm  MP40 grips in pretty good condition. MP38 grips have a distinctively different shape.

Looks to me like the gun got dropped at some point, bending the grip frame. If the gun was intact in the selling dealer's photos, then probably the damage happened at your transferring dealer, or enroute. I think that if the damage had occurred during shipping that one or both of the grips would be broken or shattered. Bakelite is a phenolic plastic that has excellent properties of chemical and heat resistance, but it's famously brittle. In other words, the frame was probably bent when the gun was dropped while the grips were removed.

The frame will need to be straightened by someone who knows his business.  

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by TSMGguy

[Rekraps]

1 hour ago, TSMGguy said:

Pictured are original WWII gbm  MP40 grips in pretty good condition. MP38 grips have a distinctively different shape.

Looks to me like the gun got dropped at some point, bending the grip frame. If the gun was intact in the selling dealer's photos, then probably the damage happened at your transferring dealer, or enroute. I think that if the damage had occurred during shipping that one or both of the grips would be broken or shattered. Bakelite is a phenolic plastic that has excellent properties of chemical and heat resistance, but it's famously brittle. In other words, the frame was probably bent when the gun was dropped while the grips were removed.

The frame will need to be straightened by someone who knows his business.  

 

Funny you say that, I was going to, in jest of course, recommend that the owner use a vice to bring the grip frame into order!

[StrangeRanger]

The gun arrived with the grips packed loose.  It's a good bet that one of the two dealers involved dropped it and shattered the Bakelite grips.  They had a pair in their parts stash so they threw them in.

The question becomes did they trial fit them and discover the damage and ship it anyway without contacting you or did they not bother.  One instance is borderline criminal, the other is borderline stupid.  I don't know the dealers involved but it seems much more likely that the first major dealer would have the parts on hand rather than your local guy.  If they're a big enough dealer it's entirely possible that some low-level flunkie dropped it and tried to cover up his mistake but never told the boss.

I wish you luck sussing this one out

[Rekraps]

I think the better part of valor is to attempt to return the gun. There are undamaged options available. 

[First Sergeant]

I had a nearly identical situation 10+ years involving an Erb MP40.  I had purchased from a reputable out of state dealer ( I thought) and the numerous pictures looked great, grips matched etc.  Upon taking delivery the grips were on the gun but didn't fit; much like the OP's.  The dealer said it was fine when it left his shop, claimed no knowledge saying it must have happened during shipment.   My local dealer was a friend and had retained the shipping cartons. There was no sign of damage.  The out of state dealer refused to offer a solution.   The fix, mostly, was to have the frame bent to nearly match the grip positioning.   This was done free of charge by a local dealer/manufacturer I had never dealt with. He did it while I waited and he was the true definition of Reputable.   

Hopefully a slight frame bending will correct yours.  Mine was so bad it couldn't be shot. Unfortunately, the out of state dealer I used is still in business.  Good luck, they are great shooters. 

[brodie74]

Wow! thanks everyone for your comments and time - I really do appreciate it. I was worried the problem was bigger than the wrong grips which is why I wanted to post it here before I did anything. And to help clairify what actually happened as the gun showed up at my dealer almost two years ago - (not new to guns and transfers but new to machine guns) - saw the gun and grips - looked good - got the paperwork rolling and took it home a bit of a year later - due to life it sat in the safe for almost a year until here i am. So hard to pin down what exactly happened but seems like it got jacked up in transit (I do remember the shipping box being pretty messed up which I did think was strange for shipping such an expensive item) but a lot of time has elapsed and I should have taken a better look. I wound up buying a rifle case for my dealer to keep it in while I was waiting on the paper work. And to be honest I dont remember if my dealer said it arrived with the grips off or if they said the grips didnt fit so they took them off  Try to find out more when I am back there next time.

But do need to figure out next steps. So it does seem like the frame needs to get straightened out. Does anyone know an MP40 gunsmith in eastern PA? I cant imagine the pain of shipping machine gun myself. 

Thanks again

 

[DINK]

One bright spot- since your gun is a Wilson tube gun, the tube is the registered part and there's no need to ship it for this repair.  The lower receiver is just "parts" so even if it totally disappears in transit you can replace it for a heck of a lot less money than the whole gun.  It also opens up a lot of shipping option not available for "machine guns".

[Maxim]

Yes, there is a visible bulge near the top of the rear grip strap.  Must have been dropped, as speculated.

[brodie74]

Hey definetly a bulge on the back strap but is on both sides - looked so smooth I assumed it was how the gun was stamped. But have never seen an MP40 in person till this one. 

 

On that note is removing the grip pretty easy? As noted earlier I could remove and send with grips to knowledgeable smith for repairs. If anyone has recommendation. 

Thanks

[DINK]

The lower receiver is one piece, so that would need to be sent out.  Just do a field strip of the gun, put the upper receiver, bolt, recoil spring assy, et cetera aside.  If you haven't taken the gun apart yet, I'm sure there are dozens of videos available on Youtube to show how.

Here's a pretty good one:  https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/11/13/friday-field-strip-mp40-smg/

FWIW, this is the second MP-40 I have seen with a bent pistol grip.

 

Edited November 3, 2023 by DINK
Added info

[Rekraps]

1 hour ago, brodie74 said:

Hey definetly a bulge on the back strap but is on both sides - looked so smooth I assumed it was how the gun was stamped. But have never seen an MP40 in person till this one. 

 

On that note is removing the grip pretty easy? As noted earlier I could remove and send with grips to knowledgeable smith for repairs. If anyone has recommendation. 

Thanks

Be safe. Call Andrewski and explain what the issue is. He loves fixing stuff like this. Tel him Scott recommended him and the wait might be shorter than otherwise!

[StrangeRanger]

Also try Gary's Bunker in North Royalton, OH. First-rate NFA fabricator

[Mike Hammer]

And, contact the dealer you got this from and let him know that he's going to have to pay for the repair.

[colt21a]

YOU GOT RIPPED DAMAGED GUN END OF STORY IN MY BOOK. SEND IT BACK.... THATS NEVER GOOD AND THEY MESSED YOU OVER AND FIGURED YOU ARE TOO STUPID TO FIGURE IT OUT.I HAVE SOLD 100'S OF CLASS 3 AND I NEVER GOT ANYTHING BACK. THEY BOUGHT MORE. SINCE I ALWAYS SAID PROBLEM DON'T LIKE IT YOU GET REFUND 100%

EVEN ON OVER 5,000 SEMI GUNS.

SO DON'T HASSLE YOURSELF DEMAND A REFUND AND LET THEM HANDLE THAT B.S. SINCE THEY STARTED IT. WHAT THEY GOING TO SAY A UPS TRUCK RAN OVER IT NOW.

[Rich.Urich]

I have collected MP38's and MP40's years ago. I have noticed that there WERE subtle size differences between some German manufactured MP-38's and MP-40 grip plates.  Yes, there are also poorly made post war grip plates as well... 

I have observed a few MP40s with MP38 grip plates on them.  In two cases these were vet-bring back Amnesty registered MP40's.  The MP38 grip plates fit, but it looks off and slightly misaligned.  I have even seen wooden grip plates. 

I would double check with an original verified set of MP40 grips on your weapon.

 

From www.MP40.nl website:

1.2 Grip plates

At first glance the grip plates of the MP40 and MP38 look very similar. If you take a closer look you can see there is a slight differrence in shape. If you disassemble the grips and turn them around you can see that there is a big difference in shape. The MP38 grip plates have small bulges that fall exactly in place with the holes in the aluminum machined handgrip. With the MP40 it's just the other way around. Here the grip plates have molded holes where the metal bulges from the sheet metal handgrip fit exactly into. The grip plates are made of Bakelit or to be precise "Margolit". The grip plates and the foregrip were produced by two suppliers as far as I know at this moment. This was the Vereinigte Isolatorenwerke A.G. or Viacowerke (the secret code was "gbm") from Berlin-Pankow and the "Allgemeine Elektrizitätsgesellschaft which from Henningsdorf". The last one is the in Europe well know electrical appliances company: AEG./Elektrolux.

https://www.mp40.nl/index.php?page=mp-40

 

Edited November 9, 2023 by Rich.Urich
Added more information

[zavrit]

I purchased a parts kit several years ago and noticed the grip panels did not fit well.  I took the grip panels off and noticed the deformed metal in the grip frame and this confirmed that the metal pistol grip frame was bent.  I took it apart and bent the pistol grip back into shape and the grip panels fit perfectly.  You can see the before and after pics.  

[Rekraps]

Wow, excellent work. How did you bend the metal back into place? Did it naturally want to go back to original shape?

[zavrit]

4 hours ago, Rekraps said:

Wow, excellent work. How did you bend the metal back into place? Did it naturally want to go back to original shape?

Thanks.  I removed the pistol grip frame from the lower and stripped it completely.  I took an "L" shape custom punch that I made and removed the bent/deformed areas on both sides.  Flattened about 50% of the way.  Then *carefully* clamped the stripped lower in a padded table vice and hit with a plastic mallet.  Hit a couple of times, then checked for movement using one of the grip panels.  After it moved about half way, I took my "L" shape punch and flattened the bent metal so it is completely flat.  Then put back in the padded vice and hit it a couple of times and checked with the panel.  Kept doing this until the grip panels fit perfectly.  It did not want to go back into shape and had to hit the pistol grip frame with quite a bit of force.  The plastic mallet did not cause any cosmetic issues and it turned out great.  

[TSMGguy]

14 hours ago, zavrit said:

Thanks.  I removed the pistol grip frame from the lower and stripped it completely.  I took an "L" shape custom punch that I made and removed the bent/deformed areas on both sides.  Flattened about 50% of the way.  Then *carefully* clamped the stripped lower in a padded table vice and hit with a plastic mallet.  Hit a couple of times, then checked for movement using one of the grip panels.  After it moved about half way, I took my "L" shape punch and flattened the bent metal so it is completely flat.  Then put back in the padded vice and hit it a couple of times and checked with the panel.  Kept doing this until the grip panels fit perfectly.  It did not want to go back into shape and had to hit the pistol grip frame with quite a bit of force.  The plastic mallet did not cause any cosmetic issues and it turned out great.  

The fortunate part of this is that one or both of the grip did not shatter when the grip frame got damaged. Bakelite is strong but notoriously brittle!

[zavrit]

3 hours ago, TSMGguy said:

The fortunate part of this is that one or both of the grip did not shatter when the grip frame got damaged. Bakelite is strong but notoriously brittle!

Or one or both grip panels were broken and had been replaced at some point.