Colt Thompson Asking Prices

[Sig]

Managed to tally up the tracked asking prices I captured for Colt Thompsons for 2005 and wanted to share that along with past #'s.

I am sure it will have much debate. All I claim is this is what I have seen and/or heard as asking prices tossing out highest and lowest prices.

 

disclaimer

your mileage may vary

no one is claiming that these SOLD for these prices

 

 

 

2003 2004 2005

Count 44 56 50

 

Average $21,462 $27,720 $33,745

Median $20,000 $27,500 $32,750

Mode $20,000 $35,000 $35,000

[giantpanda4]

Excellent use of data Michael! Thanks! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/hail.gif

 

Anyone care to guess what the actual selling prices are - say 10% - less? http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/ph34r.gif

 

If so, that means a reasonable (average) condition 1921 can be bought for $25K or so. Still way too high for me! But I hope those advertising $42+ will read this, and better yet their customers will read it first!

 

 

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

GP,

10% off any of the listed 2005 figures still hovers at, or over, the $30K figure. Of course, the term "average condition" needs a whole lot of clarification. That has the sound of 80% or lower. If you adjust the price for those Colt TSMG's that could legitimately be classified as over 90%, then the $40K asking price, aside from the accessories, is a natural progression in 2006.

 

It is somewhat misleading to look at the prices of Colt TSMG's in a vacuum separate from the rest of the C&R NFA weapons. In the day of the $10K H&K sear, it doesn't give an NFA customer a whole lot of leverage to say that "X" is the magical formula they should pay for a mystery condition Colt TSMG. When M1/M1A1's are selling for $19,500, as confirmed on firearm auction boards, the direction of NFA prices is unequivocally north, not south.

[philasteen]

The $19,500 M1A1 is an exceptional specimen and is not representative of the going rates for M1A1s in general.

[giantpanda4]

Artie, you are right. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/iagree.gif I misread the data. Take 10% off 32,700 and that may be the starting point. But I still can't afford it!

 

Now don't get me in the habit of agreeing with you!!! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

GP,

The AMA has determined that agreeing with a post of mine is not habit forming.

 

Philisteen,

Was that WWII TSMG M1's $19,500 figure an aberration or the shape of things to come? If we are talking about the best representative of a particular model TSMG, then that M1 was the touchstone. Was the WH M1/M1A1 that sold for $17K an aberration? More likely. Can they be found for less? Of course.

 

We know from recent memory that a matching numbered C drum sold (not advertised) for near $5K. What should be the ratio for Colt C drum prices to the weapon they were originally designed to plug into? According to Sig's figures that number is roughly seven.

[philasteen]

Exactly my point Arthur, that M1A1 is the high water mark for M1A1 quality -- most will sell for less. Similarly, average Colt TSMGs may sell for 30K? but exceptional specimens command far more.

[Reenactor]

Sig, thanks for the work which this data represents. That is A LOT of work over an extended period of time. I have two 1921s, which I bought at outrageous prices in 1991 and 1999. Each of my guns is now worth more than my cherry 1931 Model A Ford sedan. I go back and forth about whether or not to share this type of information with my wife. "Look, Dear, my guns have appreciated more than your diamonds. Let's buy more." Any of you guys out there who have tried it and it worked, let me know. I'm trying 2 pictures, let's see if I can do it right. http:///i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24/reenactor1/aebd6495.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24/reenactor1/4c27761d.jpg

[Reenactor]

OK, learning experience, here's the second picture. http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24/reenactor1/aebd6495.jpg

[October1971]

Absolutely fabulous work on the Thompson research, Mike.

Now, how about the same info on the various L-drums and C-drums?

Bill D. in Florida

[Sig]

October1971

 

ohhhhhhh that's getting a bit harder to do.

 

There is an issue that drums are claimed as Colt in version this or pattern that, etc.

Problem is it is very hard without seeing these to know which.

 

Further, what I see trading on drums is extremely limited even less so than that of the actual TSMG it seems for the early drums and even less so for original #'d drums.

 

On the original #'d drums, I can say I see more original #'d C drums for sale by far then I ever do for #'d L drums, don't know why but have observed that for a while.

 

I will look at what I have but I feel the sample information will not lend itself to a reasonable analysis because of the so many variations of drums.

 

michael

[October1971]

Michael,

 

Yes, tracking drums could be a nightmare!

What is the highest price range you've seen on the numbered L-drums?

The "NO number"? and the typical WWII contract drums?

 

Thanks!

 

Bill D

[Sig]

October1971

Off the top of my head I remember a few prices. Not at home now to look at the actual.

So until then it is something like this.

 

A NIB (with box) #'d C drum $19k, pretty sure on that

A MINT #d C drum $14K I believe that is the correct $

A NIB (with box) #d L drum $6,200

A NIB (with box #d NO drum $6,500

 

I can not revel sources for a few items above, some were listed on the boards though.

I will check when I get home and update another post.

As for typical ranges of #'d C and L drum prices I will get that and post as well, as I said they are few and far between.

michael

[Sig]

October1971

Here is my best effort on your question, data being for 2005, for observed asking prices and/or transactions. Not inclined to do this for any other years.

 

Here are all the prices observed, some are actual sales, for original #'d C drums all understood to be matching unless noted:

$7,200, $4,000, $6,250, 2@$5,000, $12,000 (w/pouch and mismatched #;d L drum), $6,800, 1@a range asking from $11,500 to $9,000 for a 3 digit serial # mint, $8,000, $7,000, $19,000 (NIB with box), 3@$7,500 believe 2 sold for that and one for $7k, $2,500 mismatched and 60% finish, $5,800, 2@$5,500 refinished, $5,000 refinished. 19 if I counted correctly

 

As I commented very low observance of #'d L drums:

3@$2,500 from one collector each with some issue such as rust, pitting or mismatched, $4,000, $5,500 (NIB with box). 5 total

 

NO drums (I do not remember having seen any for sale prior to 2005)

$5,000 (Possibly Refinished?), offered then withdrawn, then claimed offered again for a higher unknown price and sold.

$6,200 NIB with box, offered and then withdrawn from market

 

I have always thought one of the rarer (not rarest) items out there, has been the #'d L drums. Never put this data on drums together like this and it only confirms what I always believed. To me as a collector trying to find the right #'d L drum has been a challenge.

 

Although I do track Colt L drums (non #'d) as I indicated, it is not reasonable to try to draw conclusions on pricing for these as there are many variations. I do not track any non-Colt type items such as WWII.

 

The other day it seems I did not do so good off the top of my head! Need to stop tyring to do that in the AM. That is why I put this down in writing.

michael

[October1971]

Sig

 

Good job as usual. Appreciate the .02 on the drums. Unlike the guns themselves, this seems to be a situation where drums are all over the place, price wise.

 

Thanks again for your input.

BTW, I knew a guy out in the NW who sold a C-drum in the original box made for it, for around $12,000 and this was in 2003.

I notice from your post that you've seen a number of L-drums advertised as NIB. I've been at this TSMG thing for many many years and don't recall ever seeing an ORIGINAL box for a Colt L-drum. (As opposed to CROSBY, SEYMOUR etc. in generic plain card board boxes.)

 

Do you have any pictures or description of what kind of box a NIB Colt L-drum would have been in? Or were the ads you referenced where the seller said NIB meant to imply the drums were unfired, even if there was no box?

 

Just curious.

 

Thanks!

[Sig]

I have seen 2 L drum boxes and I can not say if these are the same as that as shipped with the WWII drums.

What I saw was a inner cardboard liner of sorts that wraps the drum that then fits into an outer sleeve. Both were from different sources so led me to believe they were original but can not prove it, both were very old from the condition. I haved heard the WWI boxes were not any different.

[Sig]

Managed to tally up the tracked asking prices I captured for Colt Thompsons for 2006 and wanted to share that along with past #'s.

As usual, I am sure it will have much debate. All I claim is this is what I have seen and/or heard as asking prices tossing out highest and lowest prices.

In a slightly unusual step, for this year I have tossed out 3 TSMG's with asking prices > $50,000. While there are 2 TSMG's that sold > $50,000, 1 confirmed and 1 I with a strong source of information but no 100% confirmation.

 

disclaimer

your mileage may vary

while there are SOME prices confirmed as selling price, no one is claiming that these asking prices actually SOLD for these prices

 

2003 2004 2005 2006

Count 44 56 50 67

 

Average $21,462 $27,720 $33,745 $36,533

Median $20,000 $27,500 $32,750 $32,500

Mode $20,000 $35,000 $35,000 $35,000

 

 

 

[SecondAmend]

Sig,

 

Your figures are pretty much in line with those published at

 

www.machinegunpriceguide.com/

 

Thanks for your update.

[John Jr]

Excellent work. Thanks for taking the time to keep up the research project.

 

As a side note, I'm an appraiser in addition to being a Realtor. Selling price is the only thing you can use for estimating value.

 

Again, thanks for sharing.

 

John Jr

 

[TD.]

Sig,

Jr. is right - excellent work and great information.

 

Jr.,

I agree that selling price is needed to perfectly define value. However, isn't asking price coupled with a few known sales a pretty good indicator of a market.

[October1971]

Sig,

Good job, as usual, on your tracking of prices. I know that is a time-consuming task.

 

Now... how about original spare parts tins...!?

 

1. How many have you seen advertised/sold in last (4) years?

2. What were some of the prices?

3. What do you think current pricing would be on an original?

 

And, to further muddy the water...

 

1. How many hard cases (original) have you seen advertised?

2. Price ranges?

3. What % of those were FBI type vs Police Cases?

 

Thanks!

 

Oh, and Happy New Year

[Sig]

October1971

Just back from a roadtrip.

I will take a stab at some of your questions next week sometime.

michael

[Sig]

OK I got off my butt on this update, beyond being very busy at work, lately I have been also very busy with research on my couple of Colt Thompson's and working with David on literature research.

 

Completely missed 2007 prices for some reason, sorry guys. I only noticed that when I was trying to assist another member.

 

Managed to tally up the tracked asking prices I captured for Colt Thompsons for 2007 and 2008 now and wanted to share that along with past #'s.

As usual, I am sure it will have much debate. All I claim is this is what I have seen and/or heard as asking prices tossing out highest and lowest prices.

 

disclaimer

your mileage may vary

while there are SOME prices confirmed as selling price, no one is claiming that these asking prices actually SOLD for these prices

 

When I rechecked figures, for some reason my calcs for 2006 were SLIGHTLY off my apologies, which is corrected now. For 2008 I took out the highest 2 prices because they were ridiculous #'s and then the lowest one as has been my normal practice . Prices clearly are going down. My figures are an annual total so does not reflect the more recent prices we are seeing now. The count or # of TSMG's offered went down from 2006.

 

I can say one thing the prices have not gone down nearly as much as my 401K or 201K!

 

2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008

Count: 44 56 50 67 33 41

 

Average: $21,462 $27,720 $33,745 $36,160 $35,612 $34,094

Median: $20,000 $27,500 $32,750 $31,998 $35,000 $32,850

Mode: $20,000 $35,000 $35,000 $35,000 $35,000 $35,000

 

 

 

 

[Lancer]

Sig

I have a question about what is included in your data.

I've noticed that some guns listed at certain price were reduced by several thousand dollars a month or two later when they did not sell at the higher price. I've seen some reduced 2-3 times. Do you include the higher asking prices in your data when the same gun is subsequently reduce a short period of time later? Obviously this will affect the final numbers.

Edited January 11, 2009 by Lancer

[Sig]

When I see a lower price I track the lower price for this purpose. I also try to keep track of the higher price in my notes separate from the average.