Want To Sale- Colt L Drum

[Norm]

Hey guys,

 

I am selling a Colt 3rd generation L drum. I picked this up a couple of weeks ago for a good price. I am selling it now to fund other projects.

 

The drum is in good shape. It does have some rust on the outside, but nothing major. The rails are in great shape, and it slides in and out of my gun very well. NO DENTS in the lid or body, but there is a slight dent in one of the rail plates (see photo.)

 

This has a nickle rotor that appears grey in the photos. Spring is good.

 

The key is in good condition with some slight surface rust in the areas that are tight. Key fits a bit loose.

 

This is a good chance for someone here get a Colt drum. I am only listing it here for now; I hope it finds a new home here with someone I know. Buyer may choose to have it re-finished, but a collector may want it just as it is.

 

This drum was made before WW2, so it is old.

 

Some of the RKIs could probably offer more specific info on it.

 

If you wish to buy it, please MAKE SURE that your state/city allows you to own it and then e-mail me at XXXXXXXREMOVETHIS@ZZZZZZZZ.com with an offer. I will revue the offers and contact all people intrested. I do take Paypal. Shipping cost will depend on how fast and how far. I will only send this to a USA address.

 

I think that there are many people here who would vouch that I am an honest guy.

 

Thanks for looking.

 

The photos.......

 

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y204/mbsennett1/Picture919.jpg

 

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y204/mbsennett1/Picture921.jpg

 

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y204/mbsennett1/Picture922.jpg

[TSMG28]

Phil,

 

This is the first version of the Worcester Pressed Steel drum. It was probably made in the 1928-29 timeframe. The 1928 winding instructions first appeared on the faceplate of the previous drum, which is commonly referred to as the NO number Colt drum, and was actually subcontracted to Stanley Works Company.

 

The 1928 winding instructions were also stamped on some of the original numbered drums (subcontracted to John's Machine and Stamp Works). The instructions were added between the rivets on the faceplate.

 

Roger

[Norm]

QUOTE

This is the first version of the Worcester Pressed Steel drum. It was probably made in the 1928-29 timeframe. The 1928 winding instructions first appeared on the faceplate of the previous drum, which is commonly referred to as the NO number Colt drum, and was actually subcontracted to Stanley Works Company.

 

So is this a Worchester drum? I thought the plates with the wording on it matched the later Colt drums.

 

I don't want to mis-lead anyone. I thought it was one of the Colt no-number drums.

 

This is why I like the other RKIs input on these matters.

 

Norm

[TSMG28]

Norm,

 

You are not misleading anyone. This is a third gen drum. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif In the past, most people (including myself) would have referred to this as a Colt drum because of the markings and the presence of the silvered rotor. It certainly was made during the Colt era. The so-called Worcester drums were made between 1928 and 1939, when United Specialties took over primary drum production. However, Worcester still produced the WPS drum in 1940.

 

I based my identification on the series of articles that Tracie Hill published in Small Arms Review last year. Those articles identified the original subcontractors and approximately when each drum gen was made. I believe that is the first extensive research that has been published on these drums, updating even the info in Thompson: The American Legend.

 

Worcester made a lot of nice drums starting with this version and continuing to the WPS drum during WWII (which I would love to find for my collection).

 

Roger

[Norm]

QUOTE

Norm, You are not misleading anyone. This is a third gen drum.

 

TSMG28 and Phil,

 

Thanks for the info.

 

I do not claim to know everything Thompson and Thompson related, that is why I invite RKI input.

 

Nevertheless, the drum is still for sale.

 

Norm

[pat k]

Agree with Norm , with characterization as ' Colt third pattern'. , No 'No' drum.

(front, back, hub.)

 

 

 

[full auto 45]

QUOTE (Norm @ Dec 19 2006, 02:21 PM)

Nevertheless, the drum is still for sale. Norm

How much?

[Norm]

Ok guys, the drum is sold! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[TSMG28]

Phil,

 

Even more than Tracie's book, you need to read his drum articles in Small Arms Review. It was a five part series starting in November 2005, but the key ones for our discussion are December 2005, which includes the numbered drums through Worcester series, through February 2006 (Vol. 9, No 3, through Vol. 9, No 5). It is a very interesting read if you are into the history and minutiae of Thompson drums.

 

Roger

[Norm]

Phil,

 

It was a board member. If he wants to disclose his ID, he can.

 

It is amazing how that drum felt so solid (even after 60, 70, ? years.)

 

The only reason I sold it is because I have other projects I am working on and I have a like-new Bridgeport L drum that I am very happy with.

 

I figured that I would let some of the more serious Colt/pre WW2 guys buy it.

 

Norm

[philasteen]

Norm, please let us know how much it sold for if you don't mind. Thanks.

[Norm]

QUOTE (philasteen @ Dec 21 2006, 12:16 AM)

Norm, please let us know how much it sold for if you don't mind.  Thanks.

I don't mind, but the buyer might. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/slap.gif I will let the buyer make that choice.

 

I will tell you that the price was fair; I probably could have gotten more on gunbroker.com, but I would rather sell it to someone on the board.

 

Norm

 

[TSMG28]

OK, I'll out myself. I am the buyer. I am looking forward to getting the drum in my hands before Christmas - my own little present to myself.

 

I would rather not disclose the price at this time, but Norm is correct in his comments. He probably could have gotten more for it on gunbroker, but I offered what I could afford right now and he accepted it. His consideration for fellow board members is most appreciated.

 

Norm, I hope your Bridgeport performs every bit as well as this Worcester in your BEAUTIFUL 1927A1.

 

Roger

[Z3BigDaddy]

QUOTE (TSMG28 @ Dec 21 2006, 11:50 AM)

OK, I'll out myself. I am the buyer. I am looking forward to getting the drum in my hands before Christmas - my own little present to myself. I would rather not disclose the price at this time, but Norm is correct in his comments. He probably could have gotten more for it on gunbroker, but I offered what I could afford right now and he accepted it. His consideration for fellow board members is most appreciated. Norm, I hope your Bridgeport performs every bit as well as this Worcester in your BEAUTIFUL 1927A1. Roger

Roger roger roger.... Stop now while you still are able.... http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/cop.gif They do have a 12 step program for Drum Addicts... I think ron, aka colt21a, is heading it up.... Good luck with your problem....

[Norm]

Roger,

 

I hope you enjoy the drum. I am glad an MGB "family member" got it.

 

Z3,

 

The real irony to all this is -"what a difference time makes."

 

Ten years ago, I worked in the same field I did now, just on a local level here in Memphis, TN.

 

My boss then was one of those guys who was happy that his business made decent money, but he wasn't interested in dominating the area or constantly making the business grow, grow, grow. He was content with his piece of the pie and the five employees (including me http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif ) that worked for him.

 

He was an avid gun collector and enthusiast. Though he never bought any C3 stuff, he had an extensive collection of semi-autos and bolt action rifles. He kept his gun safes in his office.

 

I remember in 1994 when we were talking about Thompson drums. At the time, prices had gone up a lot due to the AWB. He was telling me that back in the early '70s, he would go to gun shows and people would have stacks of Thompson drums. The price was about $5-$15 dollars each! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif

 

Man, if we could only go back to those prices we could all be drum addicts!

 

Norm

[TSMG28]

BD,

 

Yep, I have gone a bit nuts on the drums lately. Here I was at the beginning of this year, happy with my two drums, a Bridgeport shooter and a Worcester. Suddenly, and without warning, the drum disease took me over. Now I have eight.

 

I think Mike made a recent comment about no such thing as too many drums, so he apparently has a strain of this disease as well. I have seen his layout at the Thompson shows, so there is not much doubt about his affliction. He even inquired about Norm's drum.

 

I guess I will have to contact Ron for his 12-step program before I find myself endlessly going in circles, around steel tracks, pushed by a spring.......

 

Roger

[colt21a]

when i hit fifty drum's and 700 magazine's i knew i needed help.and when the wife looked in the tub's in the garage, and the safe's in the basement and said..you are flippin "Nut's"you go out and shoot a few at a time..and do you need 100 dragunov 10 shot mag's.. for rifle's you never shoot??duh!!

 

so i came to my senses...however now there is more people enjoying what i did.why? because i was able to sell it all..and now more happy people with all the drum's and mag's...since if a few try and keep it all. nobody else will get any....that is the 13 step process..move it on for another's enjoyment. and keep the history alive..

 

take care,Ron

 

and i only have 15 mag's for the p-90's i'm long cured.

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

Good to see that Hill has dropped his bizarre invalid observation about rivets and tack welds to identify different generations of Colt/John’s Machine & Stamp Works Co drums, Colt/Stanley Works Co and WPS drums. Now that we know Colt was not the manufacturer, yet relied on out sourcing, as they did for wood, barrels, Cutts Compensators and Lyman Sights, we can still attribute two manufactures, JM&SW Co and Stanley Tool, as Colt era suppliers.

 

However, Norm’s L drum is indeed a Colt/Stanley Works Co no "NO" pattern Colt drum, not a WPS drum. Hill mentions on page 332 the “plain Colt L drum (as in no number and no “NOâ€) was the last type that Colt would produce.†His only photo of said drum is credited as made by WPS. Just as his second photo of a rear face plate on page 333 under #366 cutline is mistakenly attributed to be a “2nd†pattern WPS drum front face plate when it is a Colt/Stanley Tool 3rd pattern.

 

Hill now amends his identification of a WPS “1st†pattern L drum in “American Legend†as a “2nd†pattern WPS drum in SAR magazine. He also amends (yet erroneously) his identification of a “2nd†pattern WPS L drums in “American Legend†as a “1st†pattern WPS L drum. Why Hill still stubbornly clings to this is a head scratch. Although he does not refer to these mistakes in his "American Legend," he does attempt to correct the cutlines and pics on page 332 and 333 in his book. But he is still crediting WPS with four (4) patterns of L drums instead of three (3). He still attributes a Stanley made no "NO" drum as a “WPS First Production Standard New York Address†L drum.

 

Hill mentions the term "mismatched" as defined as a front and rear face plates from "a United Specialties cover with a Crosby body." Of course it apples to JM&SW Co, Stanley Tools and WPS as well. He then says a "transitional drum is a body and cover assembled by the same manufacturer that is using the remaining parts of one production in the beginning of another." This is no doubt how Hill arrives at the separation between Stanley tools and WPS made drums. He still makes no mention of retro stamped new 1928 winding instructions on no “NO†marked drums which he identified in “American Legend†as the last Colt L drum.

 

Of course owners of these drums over the past decades have helped to muddy the waters since they have probably contributed to "mismatched" or mistaken "transitional" drum front and rear plates more than the manufacturers.

 

His photo of a Stanley Tool L drum in SAR magazine has a WPS “2nd†generation front cover and a Stanley rear cover. But how could this be a "transitional drum" when Stanley didn't have WPS parts? He says WPS used “a left over faceplate with the model of 1928 instructions stamped into it.†Left over from Stanley Tool?

 

There still remains confusion in Hill's latest drum analysis regarding who dd what and when.

[docmolar]

The Drum Bug must be catching, but I think I have been afflicted with the worst strain there is which spreads to other things Thompson. Since Dec. of 05 I have went fom 0

things Thompson to:

 

7 drums

over 300 XX & XXX rnd mags

a beautiful Greg Fox case

4 mdl 28 parts kits

Books & web gear

a model 28A1 & a 21A

 

The 12 step program Ron mentioned earlier is what I need, but I know I will just relaspe the first time I go to a show or sit down in front of the computer. Maybe Santa will bring me something ?

 

Merry Christmas to All

[pat k]

QUOTE (Arthur Fliegenheimer @ Dec 22 2006, 01:36 PM)

However, Norm’s L drum is indeed a Colt/Stanley Works Co no "NO" pattern Colt drum, not a WPS drum.

Exactly.

 

Thanks, AF.

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

Pat K,

 

It is fantastic that Hill has taken the time to research new information regarding these drum manufacturers that was missing from his 1996 book. However, it is unfortunate that the same author has generated renewed confusion with these articles. Now Roger (TSMG28) is understandably repeating Hill's SAR drum information since Hill is a recognized authority on the TSMG. But after recognizing the misleading information about these drums in "American Legend," we really need to digest Hill's articles with a smidgen of cynicism before accepting all as is written or photographed.

[dalbert]

QUOTE (Arthur Fliegenheimer @ Dec 22 2006, 03:36 PM)

Hill now amends his identification of a WPS “1st” pattern L drum in “American Thunder” as a “2nd” pattern WPS drum in SAR magazine.  He also amends (yet erroneously) his identification of a “2nd” pattern WPS L drums in “American Thunder” as a “1st” pattern WPS L drum.  Why Hill still stubbornly clings to this is a head scratch.  Although he does not refer to these mistakes in his "American Legend," he does attempt to correct  the cutlines and pics on page 332 and 333 in his book.  But he is still crediting WPS with four (4) patterns of L drums instead of three (3). He still attributes a Stanley made no "NO" drum as a “WPS First Production Standard New York Address” L drum. Hill mentions the term "mismatched"  as defined as a front and rear face plates from "a United Specialties cover with a Crosby body."  Of course it apples to JM&SW Co, Stanley Tools and WPS as well. He then says a "transitional drum is a body and cover assembled by the same manufacturer that is using the remaining parts of one production in the beginning of another."  This is no doubt how Hill arrives at the separation between Stanley tools and WPS made drums.  He still makes no mention of retro stamped  new 1928 winding instructions on no “NO” marked drums which he identified in “American Thunder” as the last Colt L drum. Of course owners of these drums over the past decades have helped to muddy the waters since they have probably contributed to "mismatched" or  mistaken "transitional" drum front and rear plates more than the manufacturers. His photo of a Stanley Tool L drum in SAR magazine has a WPS “2nd” generation front cover and a Stanley rear cover.  But how could this be a "transitional drum" when Stanley didn't have WPS parts?  He says WPS used “a left over faceplate with the model of 1928 instructions stamped into it.”  Left over from Stanley Tool? There still remains confusion in Hill's latest drum analysis regarding who dd what and when.

Arthur,

 

Just FYI...Tracie Hill wrote "Thompson: The American Legend." Frank Iannamico wrote "American Thunder."

 

David

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

David,

 

Thank you for pointing out my mixing up "Thunder" with "Legend." I corrected the error. Much easier to do on a Internet board as compared to an author correcting thousands of books in print.