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Selling at auction? Commission? Premium?


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#1 reconbob

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 02:11 PM

   Over time we see guns sold at auction and in addition to the sale price there is a "buyers premium"

added to the final price the buyer must pay. Is there a similar fee to be paid by the seller? As an example

if you sold a gun for $20,000 at an auction would you get $20,000? Or you have to pay a commission

and the buyer also has to pay the buyers premium?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Bob


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#2 ron_brock

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 02:56 PM

Sellers commission as well unless you have some high value or rare items that the auction house really wants for promotion where some places waive those fees.

Ron
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#3 Frank Iannamico

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 05:21 PM

Seller's commission is usually negotiable.


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#4 Black River Militaria CII

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 06:57 PM

I'll add that RIA and Morphys LOVE to sell MGs due to the high demand and high hammer prices so will often significantly reduce or eliminate the seller's premium. FWIW


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#5 maxfaxdude

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 10:04 PM

Rare/very high value machineguns are often sold with NO seller's premium because the hammer prices are often so high they allow for big profit from the buyer's premium alone. 


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#6 JimFromFL

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 05:07 PM

I recently inquired about this and it is a 20% seller's cost, but they would cut it back to 18 or 15%.

Even at 15% you could probably sell it at that price yourself and sell it quicker.

It is a huge gamble because in the current market, items aren't selling for as much which means it cuts deeper.

I have a Thompson listed for $25K that isn't selling.

If I opted to go the auction route and it sells for just $22K, a 15% cost is $3,300 making my take at $18,700.

f I opted to sell it directly for $18,700 I am sure it would sell in a day.

It is a balancing act and don't feel it is worth the risk in this current market.

Remember, they don't allow a reserve.


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#7 lightguy

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 06:16 PM

I recently inquired about this and it is a 20% seller's cost, but they would cut it back to 18 or 15%.

Even at 15% you could probably sell it at that price yourself and sell it quicker.

It is a huge gamble because in the current market, items aren't selling for as much which means it cuts deeper.

I have a Thompson listed for $25K that isn't selling.

If I opted to go the auction route and it sells for just $22K, a 15% cost is $3,300 making my take at $18,700.

f I opted to sell it directly for $18,700 I am sure it would sell in a day.

It is a balancing act and don't feel it is worth the risk in this current market.

Remember, they don't allow a reserve.

I may be wrong but certain auction houses might honor a reserve.

I have seen several items not sold at Morphy's for example.

Morphy's will also negotiate on the seller's premium for high buck items. Ask for zero. 

 

I need to reduce my holdings in NFA items by half and in  the same boat as you; I want them sold but at the best price I can get.

If the  political climate was stable I could hold onto them for another 20 years.

The last auctions I've seen prices were way down probably due to the ban climate in which more were selling than buying.

I should have been buying !

The old real estate axiom; "Buy when there is blood in the streets"

These times is nuts.

 

BTW none of the Dem candidate I know of is presently calling for an MG ban.

In fact many are "only" calling for a NFA-like registration of AR15s, AK47s and such.

Because that process has worked so well !!! ;)


Edited by lightguy, 09 November 2019 - 06:29 PM.

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#8 johnsonlmg41

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 08:13 PM

I don't see any blood in the streets...yet.  I bought a bunch in 2009-2013.   Still buying, whatcha got for sale?  I will say it has to be good for me to wait 11 months for it, an easy deal (many are a PITA), or priced low for my needs relatively speaking.    

 

I just bought one gun at auction and quite frankly if I don't see some paperwork by the end of next week, I'll be asking for my money back and the poor seller will be stuck.  They were really quick to ask for a check, which I mailed the next day after being invoiced (they are fast at that, but not very good).   When the shoe is on the other foot, the heel seems to drag?  At one point I'll be a seller, and guess what, I'll likely not use that company based on how they treat buyers.   I'll likely just let it go to see how long it does take them for amusement purposes and do a comparison to NFA branch to satisfy my warped sense of humor.

 

When I've asked RIA and Morpy's both allow reserves, but attempt to assure you it's not necessary.  IIRC there were some caveats with it as well as the hassle of potentially storing it and/or transferring it back.  None of this is like mailing back a rem. 870 after it fails to meet your $250 reserve, this stuff is complicated by government.


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#9 MrBill

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Posted 10 November 2019 - 01:47 PM

It looks like Johnsonlmg is having the same problem i had (auction demanding payment and then fiddle farting around with transfer paperwork) .And we are not talking about $250 beaters. If these auction house's really want to earn there 18 to 25 percent commission they need to do more than print photo-shopped pictures. There contracts are very comprehensive on there liabilities, we should demand paperwork to ATF in the same time period as the payment for the item.    


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#10 firearm

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Posted 10 November 2019 - 10:00 PM

Regarding auction houses, I found out something interesting on Gunbroker last week.  I was looking at picking up some Thompson parts that were up for auction and noted that the auction ended at noon.  So about 45 minutes before it ended Dallas, Texas time I strolled up to my PC to place a bid.  It showed that there were still 45 minutes or so to go in the auction but the item had been marked sold.  I thought well maybe the seller pulled the auction and sold early.  That's weird I thought because I would have paid much more for the item than it sold for.  I started reading the fine print on Gunbroker auction times and they are geared for the east coast time zone.  Re: if you are looking at the auction and you are on the central time zone the auction will end 1 hour earlier than what you are seeing on your screen.  That is bizare I thought and emailed customer serive.  They confirmed that is correct and that is the way they run their web site.  IMHO, that is not fair to the seller or the buyer.  Just thought you guys might want to know, then again maybe I am doing it all wrong.  I guess I could time my pc to the east coast time zone but that would screw up everything else.


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#11 Gio

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 08:54 AM

firearm

 

Gunbroker is locater in Georgia so their on Eastern time zone. I you look to the left of the date and time left it will say time left and it gives the hour and minutes that are left. I've bought a loot of Guns off Gunbroker and have had no problem with time left. If someone bids with under 15min left then the time will move up another 15min.

 

 

Frank


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#12 Tiz

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 10:16 AM

Regarding auction houses, I found out something interesting on Gunbroker last week.  I was looking at picking up some Thompson parts that were up for auction and noted that the auction ended at noon.  So about 45 minutes before it ended Dallas, Texas time I strolled up to my PC to place a bid.  It showed that there were still 45 minutes or so to go in the auction but the item had been marked sold.  I thought well maybe the seller pulled the auction and sold early.  That's weird I thought because I would have paid much more for the item than it sold for.  I started reading the fine print on Gunbroker auction times and they are geared for the east coast time zone.  Re: if you are looking at the auction and you are on the central time zone the auction will end 1 hour earlier than what you are seeing on your screen.  That is bizare I thought and emailed customer serive.  They confirmed that is correct and that is the way they run their web site.  IMHO, that is not fair to the seller or the buyer.  Just thought you guys might want to know, then again maybe I am doing it all wrong.  I guess I could time my pc to the east coast time zone but that would screw up everything else.

The best thing you can do, if you see something you are interested in, is place a max bid based on what its worth to you. If someone wants it more than you do, well so be it. On the other hand if no one bids up to your max bid you will get it for less than you expect. Waiting until the last minute to place a bid is considered sniping and is pretty silly. I could never understand the mentality of such tactics. I know what I want to pay and bid accordingly and forget it. If I win OK , if not I just assume the winner wanted more than I did and in my estimation overpaid. It certainly eliminates the issue you are referring to.


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#13 bmarvin

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 02:04 PM

Morphy's is much more flexible on commission and reserves than RIA but RIA commands higher prices and has lower fees for the buyer.


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#14 anjong-ni

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 09:16 PM

If "Californians" were allowed to purchase NFA items, the price of registered machine-guns would double overnight.

We will soak up ALL of the inventory of "everything".

What would be the "Human cost" of making them legal in CA? I'd guess...No one would ever notice...Phil
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#15 johnsonlmg41

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 12:05 PM

Californian's are allowed to purchase NFA items.  Possession is more difficult IMO, but not impossible.  Ownership and possession are two completely different things.  What I find more interesting is how many Californian's live there but don't actually reside there anymore, that's the untold story.


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#16 Stampcollector

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Posted 19 November 2019 - 11:44 PM

In (2012) an article in our local news paper I read clamed California is No.3 in registered Machinegun ownership in the U.S. 

 

It also said Virginia is No.1 


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#17 giantpanda4

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Posted 20 November 2019 - 06:01 PM

Gota remember the auction houses will include a 1099 with your check... maybe not a big deal now for me since I retired, but remember it in your calculations.


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#18 Frank Iannamico

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Posted 20 November 2019 - 06:07 PM

Gota remember the auction houses will include a 1099 with your check... maybe not a big deal now for me since I retired, but remember it in your calculations.

Both houses told me no tax forms are issued. 


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#19 Frank Iannamico

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Posted 20 November 2019 - 06:11 PM

Morphy's is much more flexible on commission and reserves than RIA but RIA commands higher prices and has lower fees for the buyer.

I have been to both auction houses and got a "tour." Morphys had FAR more machine guns awaiting auction than RIA. The bad side to that if your selling is too many guns going off at once.

Morphys' October list was what 2-4 pages long. The "big" fall auction I attended at RIA had 40 NFA for sale. 


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#20 giantpanda4

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Posted 20 November 2019 - 06:13 PM

Frank - thanks for the correction. I was told by Morphy that they would send me several small checks instead of i=one large one, but not that they would not send a tax form. Glad to hear.


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