firearm Posted August 17, 2020 Report Share Posted August 17, 2020 Here are pics of another Colt 21A that was seized off the Steamship Eastside along with #651. In total there were 495 weapons seized by US Customs Officials on June 15, 1921 at Pier No. 2, Hoboken, New Jersey. To my knowledge, this weapon never left the USA. It and two others (#758 & #833) were returned by the FBI to Frank Williams via his agent Joseph McGarrity in November of 1925. See attached document, page #3, memorandum for the Director of the FBI, John Edgar Hoover. I purchased it from a local here in Grapevine, Texas back in August of 1995. I always thought it to be correct, even when I was going though all of my weapons a few months ago. Last week I was going through some notes that Gordon made when he looked it over years back and was surprised to find that he said that it had been re-barreled. Whoever re-barreled it did an excellent job but when I took a magnifying glass to the alignment mark, I could see that the mark was not perfect and certainly not one made by Colt. Like Tom says, when you see something incorrect or missing, starting looking harder. That is when I found that the front sight face is marked "AOC". I had never noticed it before. I took the weapon completely down and found everything else to be correct. For a weapon that is almost 100 years old, it is in excellent condition. I also have a complete copy of the 9 page "Memorandum For The Director" if anyone cares to read it. Just let me know. Weapon pics attached. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt Chopper Posted August 17, 2020 Report Share Posted August 17, 2020 Very cool, love that number ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger Posted August 17, 2020 Report Share Posted August 17, 2020 Does it have a square end on the actuator slot? Can you post a photo please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firearm Posted August 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2020 It's square. Everything under #2500 was square, if I remember right. However, I have seen a few that were over #2500 that had square slots as well. Re: #5176 that belonged to the Dallas Police Department. It has a square actuator slot. Pic attached of #800. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJX Posted August 18, 2020 Report Share Posted August 18, 2020 Fine looking Tommy Gun. Thanks for sharing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpbcps Posted August 18, 2020 Report Share Posted August 18, 2020 I wonder how many more Colt Thompsons from the SS East Side, that the FBI returned to their original owners, did not make it to Ireland. Stay safeRichard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vettom Posted August 18, 2020 Report Share Posted August 18, 2020 Thank you for sharing this info very cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halftrack Posted August 18, 2020 Report Share Posted August 18, 2020 One of the guns was lost overboard .....yea right. One of the patrol officers most likely kept it for himself rather than return it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpbcps Posted August 18, 2020 Report Share Posted August 18, 2020 (edited) Correct me if I am wrong, I made this note some time over the last 20 years, now more relevant due to the serial numbers: "A twist in the tale, is that while the East Side Thompsons were in custody, the US Customs in New York City borrowed three of the confiscated Thompsons, serial numbers 758, 800 & 833, on the 4th August 1921, for use on their harbour patrol boats. On the 14th September 1925 at US District Court, District of New Jersey in the case United States of America vs 495 Thompson machine guns on libel for condemnation order, the seized guns were returned legally to Frank Williams and Joe McGarrity. Following the order, the US Customs returned the ‘borrowed’ guns". I really should have recorded references to where I found the information in my notes. Stay safeRichard PS just read the 'Memorandum For The Director' extract in first post, so I have just repeated that information above. Edited August 18, 2020 by rpbcps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firearm Posted August 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2020 Looks like Peter Bradley shipped them to US Attorney General in Washington DC per page 3. My guess is that they were to be used as evidence against Frank Williams but the case was later dropped. Attached is the complete report to Hoover.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD. Posted August 18, 2020 Report Share Posted August 18, 2020 Nick,Thank you for posting the pictures and historical information on NO 800. I really like NO 800 - as is! The barrel issue is unfortunate. It appears who ever manufactured the barrel almost made a mini wedding band (page 19 - AAGFTTSG) for fin number 29. I would have liked to have seen the original barrel. I am curious is the actuator is of the first variation with the square cut under the cocking ears (page 175 - AAGFTTSG). Again, I like NO 800. This is a Colt's where a prospective owner will likely accept a replacement barrel because of the low serial number and historical provenance. It is much more than a shooter grade Colt's! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firearm Posted August 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2020 Here are a couple of shots of the actuator face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt Chopper Posted August 19, 2020 Report Share Posted August 19, 2020 Yep, early square cut. Very nice Nick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reconbob Posted August 23, 2020 Report Share Posted August 23, 2020 Good quality pictures like these are a valuable reference. Thanks for posting.Not shown in the pictures is the logo. On this gun with this serial number the logowould be the AUT-ORD-CO arrowhead logo, not the Thompson bullet logo. Is thiscorrect? From looking at the pictures it appears that the barrel has the darker black oxideblue as opposed to the distinctive Colt Royal Blue. Is this also correct? Or am I seeing something that is not there? Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpbcps Posted August 23, 2020 Report Share Posted August 23, 2020 Good quality pictures like these are a valuable reference. Thanks for posting.Not shown in the pictures is the logo. On this gun with this serial number the logowould be the AUT-ORD-CO arrowhead logo, not the Thompson bullet logo. Is thiscorrect?From looking at the pictures it appears that the barrel has the darker black oxideblue as opposed to the distinctive Colt Royal Blue. Is this also correct? Or am Iseeing something that is not there? Bob Bob,I can't comment on the barrel, but the AUT-ORD-CO arrowhead logo is shown in one of the pictures in the first post. Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reconbob Posted August 23, 2020 Report Share Posted August 23, 2020 Ahh, OK. Got it. I missed that. Hsd to zoom in to see it. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpbcps Posted August 23, 2020 Report Share Posted August 23, 2020 Ahh, OK. Got it. I missed that. Hsd to zoom in to see it. Bob Me too, maybe an age thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gijive Posted August 23, 2020 Report Share Posted August 23, 2020 From looking at the pictures it appears that the barrel has the darker black oxideblue as opposed to the distinctive Colt Royal Blue. Is this also correct? Or am Iseeing something that is not there? BobBob, I would suspect the barrel is not original to the gun. The witness mark looks like it was put on by hand a even made a small mark on the next barrel fin. The front sight ring is not original, it is a a WWII era front sight with flat -top profile. The rear grip is definitely not original, it is a WWII era grip. So, some modifications to it were made over the years. Nice interesting gun with lot's of history, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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