Michael Free Collection

[av8tr]

Well it seems that Michael Free has been sent to jail for repeated Contempt of Court. I guess that quote in the news article about his paying in full was not true.4-3-12OrderofCourt.pdf

[billatlanta]

Well it seems that Michael Free has been sent to jail for repeated Contempt of Court. I guess that quote in the news article about his paying in full was not true.4-3-12OrderofCourt.pdf

 

He may have made his payments, but it appears that the Judge found him in contempt (for the second time) after a first warning,

of continueing trying to hide or sell some of his assets !! TSMG's included? Judge ordered immediate seisure.

So what would be the status of the NFA TSMG's? Are they still TRANSFERABLE ? Not sure if this has been done before.

 

GO STRAIGHT TO JAIL, DO NOT PASS GO, DO NOT COLLECT $200 !

Get out of jail "FREE" card not applicable (pun intended.)

 

Unfortunate incident, I feel sorry for Mr. Free, but it seems he brought this action on himself, who could know

what he was thinking.

Bill

[av8tr]

Unfortunately, I am involved. I responded to one of his ads last year, agreed to buy one of his guns and sent him the money. Now it seems I wait in line with the rest of the creditors for the assets to be sold to get my money back. You see, his case was converted to Chapter 7 on 1 February 2011. So, as of that date he had no right to sell any assets, as they are part of the estate and under control of the Trustee. Free just chose to hide some of his assets and sell them without the knowledge of the Trustee. Guns were not the only assets he did not disclose. According to the counsel for the Trustee, as of yesterday, he had not complied with the terms of a Stipulation of March 23. So, no he has not paid the money the Judge required by that Order or the February 27, 2012 Order. In the Order of March 23, he was ordered to pay by April 3, or face incarceration, and as of yesteday, he was still in jail

 

The guns are under the control of the local sheriff. The Trustee intends to have Rock Island Auction sell them, but I am sure Rock Island will not get them to auction until later in the year at one of their Premier Auctions.

 

As you might imagine, I don't really feel sorry for him at all.

[TD.]

av8tr,

Your situation is terrible. What Free did to you is inexcusable. Normally, Chapter 7 cases never have enough assets to pay any of the unsecured creditors. Does the Trustee feel the assets of Free will generate enough money to cover some/all of the unsecured creditors losses?

 

If me (and I realize that is easy to say) I would seek guidance for a criminal action against Free with the US Attorney's Office for fraud or Bankruptcy Fraud and/or the local District Attorney for fraud. There has to be some felony violation Free committed when he defrauded you in the sale of a Class Three NFA weapon.

 

We all wish you good luck with your claim. The auction should be a blockbuster. I hope your claims are satisfied. Any additional information you post will be appreciated by all in the Thompson community.

[newtommygunner]

I'm sorry u are involved, what a sad tale. I hope u get ur money back. Worse than waiting for BATFE approval !!!

[darrylta]

Unfortunately, I am involved. I responded to one of his ads last year, agreed to buy one of his guns and sent him the money. Now it seems I wait in line with the rest of the creditors for the assets to be sold to get my money back. You see, his case was converted to Chapter 7 on 1 February 2011. So, as of that date he had no right to sell any assets, as they are part of the estate and under control of the Trustee. Free just chose to hide some of his assets and sell them without the knowledge of the Trustee. Guns were not the only assets he did not disclose. According to the counsel for the Trustee, as of yesterday, he had not complied with the terms of a Stipulation of March 23. So, no he has not paid the money the Judge required by that Order or the February 27, 2012 Order. In the Order of March 23, he was ordered to pay by April 3, or face incarceration, and as of yesteday, he was still in jail

 

The guns are under the control of the local sheriff. The Trustee intends to have Rock Island Auction sell them, but I am sure Rock Island will not get them to auction until later in the year at one of their Premier Auctions.

 

As you might imagine, I don't really feel sorry for him at all.

 

 

Did you buy the gun on a C&R FFL or did you go through your dealer?

 

I wonder if you had went through a dealer and the transfer was approved and

the dealer had possession of the gun. Would the courts require the dealer to

return the gun to the sheriff?

 

This is a worst case scenario for sure. It reminds me of the auction house that

folded up recently, you know that others must have been screwed there as well.

 

NFA purchasing is truly a leap of faith,,,even when using binding contracts.

It's hard to get blood out of a turnip

 

Good Luck!

-Darryl

Edited April 6, 2012 by darrylta

[mnshooter]

Unfortunately, I am involved. I responded to one of his ads last year, agreed to buy one of his guns and sent him the money. Now it seems I wait in line with the rest of the creditors for the assets to be sold to get my money back. You see, his case was converted to Chapter 7 on 1 February 2011. So, as of that date he had no right to sell any assets, as they are part of the estate and under control of the Trustee. Free just chose to hide some of his assets and sell them without the knowledge of the Trustee. Guns were not the only assets he did not disclose. According to the counsel for the Trustee, as of yesterday, he had not complied with the terms of a Stipulation of March 23. So, no he has not paid the money the Judge required by that Order or the February 27, 2012 Order. In the Order of March 23, he was ordered to pay by April 3, or face incarceration, and as of yesteday, he was still in jail

 

The guns are under the control of the local sheriff. The Trustee intends to have Rock Island Auction sell them, but I am sure Rock Island will not get them to auction until later in the year at one of their Premier Auctions.

 

As you might imagine, I don't really feel sorry for him at all.

 

 

Did you buy the gun on a C&R FFL or did you go through your dealer?

 

I wonder if you had went through a dealer and the transfer was approved and

the dealer had possession of the gun. Would the courts require the dealer to

return the gun to the sheriff?

 

This is a worst case scenario for sure. It reminds me of the auction house that

folded up recently, you know that others must have been screwed there as well.

 

NFA purchasing is truly a leap of faith,,,even when using binding contracts.

It's hard to get blood out of a turnip

 

Good Luck!

-Darryl

 

Didn't get my National Enquirer this week. What auction house folded?

[darrylta]

JC Devine closed it's doors in April 2011.

-Darryl

[mnshooter]

JC Devine closed it's doors in April 2011.

-Darryl

 

Thanks.

Happy Easter.

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

The auction should be a blockbuster.

 

Considering the bolt in Colt #1286, potential auction bidders should thoroughly examine each component of any Colt TSMG owned by Mike Free.

[av8tr]

Darrylta, I hold a C&R FFL and the gun was advertised as such. However, the deal first started going bad in late February when the ATF disapproved the transfer on the grounds that they showed the gun as having been remanufactured in 1985, and thus was not eligible to be transfered across state lines to a C&R licensee. It is possible Free did not know this as the Form 4 he showed me from when he bought it in 1985 showed the original German manufacturer and that 1985 transfer was from a PA dealer to Free. The gun did not have the appearance of a reman. It was after learning of the disapproval from the ATF, that I discovered he was under Chapter 7 Bankruptcy. As to what would happen if gun made the first transfer to a dealer, or was already in a buyer's possession, I can only tell you that I have been told that it is illegal for someone under Chapter 7 bankruptcy to dispose of any assets. They are to be under the control of the Trustee. So, is it possible if they can trace a gun to a buyer, will they come get it? I don't know, but I would hate to be at work one day and have the Sheriff and an ATF agent show up at my house and tell my wife, "We are here for the ___." So, in my case, it may be a blessing that the ATF denied the transfer. Had they approved it, I would have had the gun, but who knows for how long.

 

TD, The Trustee believes that they will have the means to pay the creditors. If they keep finding hidden assets, it might even be more likely. The ATF is now a respondent in the case. I would think they could access the Registry and find out if he surrendered all of the NFA weapons he has to the Sheriff as per the Court's Order. I do not know much about how "searchable" the ATF records are, but It might also be possible to find out how many and which guns he has sold since 1 February 2011. I have contacted an attorney in PA. I may soon contact the DA up there. I certainly would be all for a felony conviction for Free. This would assure he had no other firearms dealings.

 

This was to be the 6th NFA purchase for me. The others had been flawless (save the long wait time.) It is truely a bummer.

 

Here are a couple of other Court documents you all may find interesting. The Motion for Contempt came first on, 19 March 2012.3-23-12Order.pdfMotionforContempt.pdf

[darrylta]

Wow, I read the documents and my head hurts as a result. What a convoluted web you have

there. Luckily your gun deal was not a big ticket purchase. I was hoping it wasn't a 40k Colt TSMG

or worse.

 

I'm sure this type transaction is rare,,, but if you have a purchase pending as I do, you can't help but to

pause and question yourself on,,,what if?

 

Very interesting and sobering to say the least.

 

Hang in there!

 

-Darryl

[TD.]

av8tr,

Thank you for the additional information. If the ATF had approved the transfer and you would have obtained possession of the NFA weapon, the trustee could have forced you to return it to the bankruptcy estate. However, the trustee probably would have been more interested in receiving the funds you paid to the debtor if a fair price was obtained for the NFA weapon. If the trustee had of pursued the return, I feel certain they would have sent you a letter giving notice of this problem and demanding return; no ATF or Sheriff as long as you work with the trustee to resolve the issue. Of course, this is just conversation on my part as I am not the trustee.

 

It does appear you will receive your funds back. I am glad this was not your first NFA purchase as you at least understand the process. As bad as this is, imagine it for a first time buyer! I hate to knock on Free as he was certainly a known collector and authority in the Thompson community. However, there is no excuse for defying a Court Order in a Court he voluntary petitioned for relief and risking the status of NFA weapons. Maybe his side of the story will come out someday. Again, thank you for sharing and let us know how it all turns out for you.

 

Arthur - excellent idea for an in-person inspection!

Edited April 7, 2012 by TD.

[av8tr]

Another chapter in the story:

 

http://www.justice.gov/usao/paw/news/2014/2014_december/2014_12_16_02.html

 

Looks like a felony conviction to me. Or, more accurately, 6.

 

As for my end result, in April of 2013, the Court approved the Trustee sending me the money I had paid Free plus some of my attorney's fees. All in all, I lost about $1000. I was told at the time of the Federal investigation into bankruptcy fraud and mail fraud, but asked to remain silent.

 

You reap what you sow. He did this to himself, completely.

[Bob]

Great that you got some of it back! Nice Christmas present :-)

 

I almost got suckered into one of his guns, just didn't smell right so my hunch proved correct.

[DLansky]

the wheels of justice move slowly, but they do move. if you are on the wrong side of the law, the wheel will grind you into a fine powder, just like wheat through the mill. Michael called me about buying a few guns during this time. they were guns I had asked him about on several occassions but were never for sale and I was told they would never be for sale. it did not smell right. suddenly, he was pushing very hard on guns he would not even talk to me about a few months earlier and wanted cash sent to a "friend". I really wanted the guns, but did not feel cmfortable, so I passed. I got very lucky becasue it would have been money I would not have wanted tied up for years. something happened and changed him. while I feel badly for him because we had been very freindly, this is a problem of his own making and he will have plenty of time to think things over.

[dalbert]

So the question now is...When will his TSMG collection legitimately be presented for sale?

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

[Gio]

David,

 

With this administration they will probably melt them down. I sure hope they don't . I just don't see the government selling them.

 

Frank

[av8tr]

The bankruptcy case is not yet closed. His bankruptcy attorney is owed in excess of $60,000 and the criminal attorney who represented him in the bankruptcy fraud case is owed $20,000. I know this because there is a petition before the bankruptcy court to pay them out of any excess funds. As the guns are valuable assets, I can't imagine the Trustee would not try to sell them. The Bankruptcy estate "owns" them, and the FBI has them, if I remember correctly. I think it would actually be the Bankruptcy Trustee selling them.

[buzz]

I'm not a lawyer but I have a hard time imagining how the FBI could legally melt down $100k worth of legally owned firearms, especially when the owner has creditors lined up around the block

[Guest title ii]

I'm not a lawyer but I have a hard time imagining how the FBI could legally melt down $100k worth of legally owned firearms, especially when the owner has creditors lined up around the block

The Department of Justice Asset Forfeiture Program encompasses the seizure and forfeiture of assets that represent the proceeds of, or were used to facilitate federal crimes.

[buzz]

I wonder if it's time for MG buyers to start using some kind of escrow service.

 

People do that for jewelry and cars, no reason why it couldn't be done for firearms.

 

The escrow service holds the money until the goods are received.

 

Once the goods are in the buyer's hand, the payment is released to the seller.

Edited December 27, 2014 by buzz

[MARK2112]

Even if they chopped the guns,the parts kits alone are $10k each

[Guest title ii]

So the question now is...When will his TSMG collection legitimately be presented for sale?

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

Perhaps the attorney James R. Walsh representing the estate of the individual in question may be able to opine on this question.

[Robert Henley]

I wonder if it's time for MG buyers to start using some kind of escrow service.

 

People do that for jewelry and cars, no reason why it couldn't be done for firearms.

 

The escrow service holds the money until the goods are received.

 

Once the goods are in the buyer's hand, the payment is released to the seller.

 

I seem to recall this approach from some research several years ago, and think it has merit. With all the scammers out there, and the exorbitant NFA SMG prices, something has to change for smooth commerce to transpire. As it is now, you have to buy from someone you know and trust.