What is the fair price for this Colt 1921

[ar15usa]

Seller claim this is a Colt 1921, but i think its a 1921AC. I am thinking to purchase it, but not sure what's the fair price for this one. Also, if the condition is the same, does Colt 1921A has more value than Colt Navy over stamped? Thanks

 

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq190/ca94115/1921%202_zpswmrxk2dd.jpg

 

 

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq190/ca94115/IMG_3985_zpse2xxgrhi.jpg

 

 

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq190/ca94115/IMG_3986_zpsfaborqqn.jpg

 

 

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq190/ca94115/IMG_3971_zps231bwra6.jpg

 

 

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq190/ca94115/IMG_3977_zpspejmkk5o.jpghttp://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq190/ca94115/IMG_3974_zpsdczh3boo.jpg

 

 

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq190/ca94115/image3_zpstsbyzmf2.jpg

 

 

[cubguy]

My 2 cents around 35-38K if that's a Colt era drum and is all correct.

Edited February 27, 2016 by cubguy

[huggytree]

http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18940&page=1

 

discussed in great detail....tons of pics listed

 

i considered it....for me the gun is down to shooter grade and was missing enough correct parts that if you paid for them individually to make the gun back to correct youd still have a $32k gun that you now have $38+ invested into.....i made him a low ball offer...its been for sale for a long time...the seller is very responsive and seems like a nice/fair guy...i believe this gun was listed at $39k at one point, then $34, now $32,500 + $1500 for the drum

 

if you can accept the gun for what it is now and dont want to make it correct its a $32k shooter + the drum......

Edited February 27, 2016 by huggytree

[ron_brock]

We talked about this one recently, but I don't recall the post. At 35k plus 1500 for the drum you'd want to make sure it's all original parts and wood. I do not remember the specifics of the reviews on this one. Hopefully someone will and link the posts.

 

HT posted at the same time 😀

Ron

Edited February 27, 2016 by ron_brock

[huggytree]

i offered him $28k w/ the drum (or $28,500)--im sure my offer was insulting..............$4k to find all the correct parts....then you have a $32k gun with a wore finish....look close at the Cutts...its down to bare metal

 

higher end thompson collectors are picky/knowledgeable people who will look at every screw & disagree about correct colors of that screw....for a $30k+ gun someone will nit pick that gun apart.....very few buyers are into the $30k range........so for resale some day if you purchase expect that gun to be picked apart down to every last non-original part...and expect 6-12 months to sell.........find the right gun and its sold in 3 hours

 

http://www.sturmgewehr.com/forums/index.php?/topic/1162-wts-m1928a1-thompson-original-wwii-cr-sold-pending-funds/

 

 

 

i personally would be willing to pay more for a 1921 vs a 28....just for the extra speed and the more original design by Thompson....dont know if the value is more though....to me it would be

Edited February 27, 2016 by huggytree

[gijive]

i personally would be willing to pay more for a 1921 vs a 28....just for the extra speed and the more original design by Thompson....dont know if the value is more though....to me it would be

 

huggytree,

 

The value is the same, there were no changes to the receiver, the condition and originality of the gun is usually what determines the price.. The internal spring, weighted actuator and buffer system were all that were changed to reduce the rate of fire. You can easily change the parts in a 1928 Model to fire at the original rate of fire. The only differences on the Colt guns was the cosmetic change stamping an 8 over the 1 in Model of 1921.

 

ar15usa,

 

The model designation is 1921. The AC part was only added by Auto-Ordnance to indicate a compensator was attached. The model of the gun is still referred to as a Model of 1921. Model of 1921A is without compensator, Model of 1921AC is with compensator.

[Black River Militaria CII]

As I understand it there are fewer remaining '21As than ACs which has over the years provided a premium in value to the '21As. No doubt someone has the numbers of '21As altered to ACs, including over stamps, and thus the remaining number of '21As. However, the numbers of either in the NFRTR are not factually known, and by extension are more ACs registered than As and is this proportion the same as the numbers of each produced? Or, does the proportion of registered examples favor the As or the ACs?

Aside from the similarities and differences noted above, the relatively fewer 21As remaining as well in the NFRTR seems to be accepted as true, and as such, imparts a premium in value to the 21As, all other issues being comparable. FWIW

[gijive]

Black River Militaria CII,

 

I am not arguing that the 1921A may be a rarer variation that the 1921 AC. I know collectors that prefer the original configuration over the other models. I was trying to clarify with the poster that the model number doesn't determine whether the gun fires faster, it is the internal parts. I realize some would pay a premium for an earlier gun, I was merely pointing out that the same effect could be achieved with a 1928 Model, since it was essentially the same gun with different internal parts. The poster is a newer member and I wasn't sure if he was aware that the gun itself was not redesigned or made later than the 1921 Model as it pertains to the Colt made guns. I should not have referred to the value as being the same as obviously collectors put a premium on certain models.

[huggytree]

i like to be a purist....if the gun came as a 1928 id leave it, if it came as a 1921 id leave that....as a purist id prefer the way Mr. Thompson designed it and i would be willing to pay extra for a 1921 if given the choice between 2 of them in equal condition......i guess as a purist id be stuck with 20 round mags and also no butt stock too......id have to dig a trench on my parents farm and practice sweeping it for my target practice (ha).......or dressing up like a cowboy shooting horses and men in front of my house

 

 

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n531/waukeshaplumbing/thompson%20cowboy_zpsuicdqp5d.jpg

[Black River Militaria CII]

gijive:

 

I appreciate the reply. I was just expanding on a point that I thought the OP was asking about which was whether the '21A had more value than the AC. Your response was informative and I didn't mean to appear that I was taking issue with it. I also hoped to elicit some response to the question of how many '21As remain of the orginal production that we're not converted to AC or overstamps. I assume that someone has researched this and the info is published. And then there is the issue of how many of each are registered which ATF has been working on, but their effort is hampered by the many variables in the model designations listed on the original registration forms.

[dalbert]

When we had ATF at the TATA Show and Shoot in 2007, we were told that 11,700+ total Thompsons (Of all types) were in the registry. This number is not completely accurate, based on differences in registration terminology, but was a query that the examiner did using key search terms of the registry.

 

If you are a Colt Thompson purist, then the 1921A is it. I don't own a Colt, so I guess I can't really be a purist, but that's the configuration that really does it for me.

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

[OCM]

Purist, 21A, naw. My Colt N was shipped from the factory as an AC, as is my Colt 21AC. I've got the ( original ) shipping order from Conn. I wouldn't own a 21A, but you know about that. Personal thing, ya know.

 

 

 

OCM

[huggytree]

to be a purist you need $40-50k

[darrylta]

Sandy,

That's a fine set of bookends you have. Are both cases period vintage?

I'm kinda partial to the A models myself. I own an Overstamp, an AC and two

21a's.

Darryl

[darrylta]

huggy,

You might as well sell your cars....your hooked :-)

Darryl

[m60mgman]

I think the 21s seem to sell for more than the 28s from the price guide. But any Colt in fine condition is rare and therefore going up be expensive.

 

I like the 21A, that's just me. Less to clean. And of the guns I've seen sold, a lot less common.

 

I'm still waiting on my 21A, 8 months and counting due to various issues.

[Sandman1957]

 

Regret poor image quality of photo.

 

 

[Devil Dog 1110]

Very nice Steve.

Is that your Navy Colt you had done?

[huggytree]

huggy,

You might as well sell your cars....your hooked :-)

Darryl

Ive bought 4 in approx 4.5 months.....im done and broke........of course i could come up with #5 if i wanted (a BAR or a FAL/G3)......but im saying no right now

 

like the cars too much!

[OCM]

D-

Older but not 30s, more like 70s I think. Believe these came out of the J. Curtis Earl collection, NIB.

 

 

Sorry, way drifting off AR15USA's thread. If you're a newbie listen to what some of these experts say-

Edited February 28, 2016 by OCM

[buzz]

I never saw the wisdom of buying a beat-up collector type gun to use as a shooter.

 

Because you're paying a big premium to sort of stick your toe into a very high price collector market.

 

That gun is pitted, if you took the Colt name off of it, it would be a 20K to 25K gun.

Edited February 29, 2016 by buzz

[johnsonlmg41]

6864 started as an AC according to the book. 21A's are for sure less in number than AC's, no question. The values have been close in the last few years, though difficult to tell sometimes as conditions and terms of sale are different in every deal. Traditionally 27's bring the most, 21A's, 21AC's, then overstamps at the bottom all other conditions being equal and guns having all the right parts. When you deviate from that all bets are off on pricing, distressed sellers, mismatched parts, refinished guns, etc. all skew the values all over the map. I watch these mostly as an investment only (and have a vested interest) and that's what I see as well as a friend of mine who's handled hundreds of them. I have seen military guns make a strong run up in the last couple years while the high end has remained mostly stagnant since about 08.

 

The gun pictured has some condition issues, apparently non original parts, and has been "touched up", so putting a commodity style value on it is a lot more difficult and will end up being what is negotiated by a buyer and the seller without much regard for "market" values since there isn't really much of a market for MG's over 20K in the first place. These are one off sales generally since sellers usually start off way too high for a quick sale to a knowledgeable dealer or collector. Lots of guns like this end up at a dealer for 5K less than what the buyer is asking from others since they often just want out at some point. See that a lot.