The Thompson Hardcase

[aut-ord-co]

I’ve always liked the Thompson FBI/PD hardcases. They still remain one of the really cool but difficult original Thompson accessories to hunt down and collect. They compliment the Thompson gun nicely in any table exhibit and they have that “look” of the past. The thought of a Thompson “cased set” always sounded intriguing like it should be an offering from Holland & Holland, or a set of vintage Parkers, Rigbys or Kreighoffs. Here are a couple of pics of my Swetnam case.

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/rw50/TSMG%20-%20Sax%20Cases/018.jpg

 

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/rw50/TSMG%20-%20Sax%20Cases/014-1.jpg

 

In looking at where the original hardcases may have evolved from, I’m going to tread on some ground that might be sacred or not. Understand that my intention is not to criticize but to express opinion after some research and to elicit discussion. It has been written in past and current literature that the Thompson hardcases (THC) were modified saxophone cases. I have wondered for quite some time where this concept came from. Possibly, there is some provenance that supports this or maybe there have been Swetnam progeny who have said it was so. Thus far, none of this has been seen or made public.

 

A “word of mouth” passed down reference could possibly have come from the 1957 movie, “Guns Don’t Argue”, which was a low budget collection of “Gangbusters” stories melded into a feature. There is a scene in the film wherein Ma Barker and two of her sons are looking at a newly acquired Thompson gun and one of them says, “What a saxophone!” Does this comment imply that hardcases fitted for Thompsons must be related to saxophone cases? Not very convincing.

 

But if there is no real provenance, then why does the literature point to the saxophone specifically? Is it the size of the case itself? Was there a saxophone case that had roughly the same dimensions of the THC? Was it the interior set up? Was there a saxophone case that had roughly similar dividers in the box that lends itself to carrying Thompson iron? Was it the different way that the case opens? The THC certainly has a somewhat unique opening lid. It is split diagonally rather than the usual flat, clam shell effect of most musical instrument cases, suitcases, trunks, etc. And finally, was there a sax case with the carrying handle positioned, specifically, on the flat part of the top lid instead of near the lock/latches where the case splits open?

 

Or, is the THC pretty much a custom made case that was produced by folks who made all types and sizes of cases to start with (like Swetnam) and they could easily accommodate another “working” instrument with its own case design and peculiarities. And therefore, the THC has really nothing to do with a saxophone case.

 

So to satisfy my questions, I thought that if the THC is a modified sax case then there MUST have been a saxophone case that physically looks and operates somewhat like the THC and therefore it would be a “missing link”. A saxophone case, nonetheless, but very close to a THC. Then the possibilities begin to grow. Yeah. The light bulbs start flashing on. Obtain (in Thompson jargon that might sometimes mean buy up, beat everyone to them, squirrel away, hoard) “missing link” cases instead of hunting down those hard to find original THC’s that cost thousands. Now we’re not going to the Andes to search out the “missing link”. Some years ago, I thought that ebay, with its worldwide reach, might just work as a good substitute.

 

And what do you know? There are hundreds of saxophone cases up for auction on ebay every day. Aha! Most of them have saxophones inside of them so you get a bonus when you find and buy the “missing link”. Just think, you’ll be able to get a cheap hardcase for your Tommy gun AND you’ll get a saxophone. What’s better than that? Doesn’t everyone want a saxophone? Since you might be getting interested now, let’s define “cheap”. Typical period saxophone cases (with saxophones) sell on ebay from around a couple of hundred dollars or less to several thousand dollars. Obviously, you might do better on any individual auction or you might do better at your local music/pawn shop. Now you have to be careful here and enter --vintage saxophone case-- into the search engine to get some hits from the correct period. You’ll see where the ideas for violet, blue, green and red velvet divided interiors came from. You’ll also see latches, handles, locks, black leather-like coverings and even some corner treatments that look very THC-like. No they are not loose. They are attached to saxophone cases, as well as, other musical instrument cases. Listen close; not to a wailing, bluesie sax but to some advice. This could be a way to replace your broken original THC handle (yes there are new replacements available).

 

There are available at auction many more modern (1940’s and forward) instruments and cases than instruments and cases from the 1920’s or 1930’s. You have to have very selective vision here to locate the gems. Closely examine an original THC or one of the beautiful repro THCs from either of this board’s two members who manufacture them and you’ll know what to search for.

 

After viewing thousands of period saxophone cases over time, as well as, other musical instrument cases, some observations can be stated:

 

An enormous quantity of saxophones came out of Elkhart, IN.

 

Companies such as: Conn, Buescher, Selmer, Wurlitzer, Bundy, King, Martin, etc. manufactured a lot of saxophones. Who bought all these? Did everyone play in a “big band” on the weekends back then?

 

Where are all those THC-like boxes?

 

Some of the types of saxophones they made were: melody, tenor, alto, baritone and bass. These varied in size. Since case dimensions are not usually mentioned in the ebay auction detail for saxophones, no direct size comparison can be made to the THC. But here is a typical saxophone box pictured next to a Swetnam box.

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/rw50/TSMG%20-%20Sax%20Cases/004.jpg

 

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/rw50/TSMG%20-%20Sax%20Cases/005.jpg

 

The interior of saxophone cases are functionally laid out for the sax itself, a neck, a mouthpiece and various other small accessories. As they are, these interiors aren’t conducive to Thompson placement. Although this would be an easy fit up by competent craftsmen in a luggage shop environment. And as for a saxophone fitting in a Thompson case: the answer is no or sorta. Check the pic. The bell, even on a smaller sax, is too large for the THC.

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/rw50/TSMG%20-%20Sax%20Cases/008.jpg

 

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/rw50/TSMG%20-%20Sax%20Cases/009.jpg

 

Saxophone cases fall into two pretty broad categories:

1. A suitcase-looking type case.

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/rw50/TSMG%20-%20Sax%20Cases/PCaseReg1.jpg

 

2. A saxophone shaped (contour shaped) type case.

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/rw50/TSMG%20-%20Sax%20Cases/bu9.jpg

 

The suitcase-looking type case is the one that could possibly qualify as the “missing link”. But none of the cases observed were split diagonally in the lid as the THC.

 

Thus far overall, a THC-like “missing link” has not been observed. That doesn’t mean that none exists.

 

How about trombones, trumpets, cornets, clarinets, oboes, etc.? There are all kinds of neat cases here to compare to the THC. But, again, none of them is the “missing link”. No cases were observed to be split diagonally in the lid as the THC. Some of these other cases, though, could make for some seriously cool period drum/mag cases or multiple Thompson guns (for you Burke types). Actually, period trumpet, clarinet, cornet, etc. cases have THC-like handles also and some of these instruments go off at much lower auction prices than saxophones. Again, a possible fix for your broken handled original THC. See some examples:

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/rw50/TSMG%20-%20Sax%20Cases/311463022_o.jpg

 

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/rw50/TSMG%20-%20Sax%20Cases/101409161.jpg

 

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/rw50/TSMG%20-%20Sax%20Cases/7772_3.jpg

 

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/rw50/TSMG%20-%20Sax%20Cases/REallAM1.jpg

 

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/rw50/TSMG%20-%20Sax%20Cases/PCaseInst5-1.jpg

 

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/rw50/TSMG%20-%20Sax%20Cases/BhSIn7BWkKGrHqYOKiYErzMofhmhBLIZQSB.jpg

 

But… And why is there always a but? What is a soprano saxophone? Think Kenny G. not Tony Soprano. Well, physically, it’s a sax that, most of the time, the bell doesn’t curl back up in the front. It’s straight (but some are curved). It looks like a heavy duty clarinet or a clarinet on steroids. (Apologies to any musicians.) This box might meet at least one of the physical properties of a THC. It had the leather handle on the flat, top part of the case and not near the lock. But it’s smaller in girth than the THC. It doesn’t open on a diagonal. Some of the cases are tapered lengthwise.

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/rw50/TSMG%20-%20Sax%20Cases/PCaseSoprano.jpg

 

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/rw50/TSMG%20-%20Sax%20Cases/PCaseSoprano2.jpg

 

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/rw50/TSMG%20-%20Sax%20Cases/PCaseSoprano3.jpg

 

While this one brand of soprano case (top two pics) positioned their handle on the top of the case, most of the soprano cases were observed to have the carrying handle in the conventional lock/latch position at the split as in the last picture above. I thought we were getting warm with this one, but not really. And there exist other less frequently seen musical items like saxellos and bass clarinets but still no “missing link”.

 

So… After looking at thousands of period saxophone cases/musical instrument cases, not one diagonally split case combined with a top mounted handle was observed. I’ll disregard the interior set up criteria because if the box was close in physical design, then the interior would be easy to reconfigure.

 

One last thing, did Swetnam Leather Products Co., Books Trunk Co. or Chicago Luggage Co. design their saxophone cases differently? Did Books and Chicago just flat out copy the basic design from Swetnam or did Swetnam copy one of theirs. Were their sax cases actually designed with the diagonal split opening and therefore it would have been much easier morphing to the THC? If so, why have none been observed if these three companies all supplied cases for years to the industry? Or did they actually supply many of the other “normal” observed saxophone cases to the manufacturers mentioned above, as well as, others? I don’t know.

 

No cases with that diagonal split opening, for any purpose, showed up in the observed sample which, over the years, is quite large. You don’t expect to see original Thompson cases show up on ebay but over the years a few have. You would expect to see at least a few diagonally split cases for some/any instrument/anything, if they were produced, but none have surfaced. Unless one of you Thompson aficionados has already scooped them all up.

 

Therefore, I’ll say that the THC isn’t a modified saxophone case at all nor is it linked to any other particular case. Modifying a saxophone case by changing the way the top lid is shaped, the way it closes (diagonally split), making it wider/narrower and moving the carrying handle to the top of the lid reads more like a total redesign rather than a modification.

 

The THC was a custom case produced by competent luggage manufacturers who made many different types of cases. Designing another case for a specific firearm, like a Thompson, a riot shotgun, a police rifle or a gas gun was what they normally did everyday in providing service to their varied customers. And once designed it was probably produced in a limited run.

 

A board member here has mentioned in a much earlier post that a vintage advertisement exists of a case, holding an instrument, and that case may be very similar to the THC. Even if that ad becomes available at some point in time, it is still hard to explain why no diagonally split opening cases have surfaced seeing that actual THCs do surface once in a while. If THCs from the 1930s are around then there should be more than a few “missing links” floating around given the absolutely HUGE numbers of saxophones/instruments/etc. that were produced and are still very much in existence.

 

Okay, I hear a few grumbles. Was my observation sample large enough (several years – thousands of cases)? Was it scrutinized by scientific testing, regression analysis and statistical number crunching? Well, it was large enough, thus far, for me to answer some of my questions. I haven’t stopped looking because research into different gray areas never rests and the hunt is part of the fun. And now that I’ve broached the subject, possibly another eye or two will be focused on it. Could be no one gives a rat’s butt about stuff like this. Maybe. And maybe you hate saxophones or you surely do now.

 

As someone mentioned in another earlier post, there is an excellent story here to uncover and evolve through some further research legwork: the origin/development of the Thompson submachine gun hardcases. What are the manufacturing dates, contracts, production numbers, customer lists and brands? Who produced it first -- Swetnam, Books or Chicago? And what was the use of early firearms hardcases by federal and state/local law enforcement?

 

Missouri and Indiana members – you are right in the middle of the history. Swetnam is a very common name in Kansas City. Someone has to know about this company. Here you go: library, city directories by year, 1920’s thru 1930’s, commercial ads, company officers, etc. Post them as you get them.

 

I’ve actually had contact with a Books Trunk family member and are trying to locate some paper remnants of the company.

 

These are my observations & comments. YMMV & YSMV s = sample

 

There is an addendum to this that I’ll post when completed.

 

[darrylta]

Great topic, last week I had a discussion with a board member that has a like new, time machine Swetnam FBI case that has been in his family since the WV coal strikes. His father never owned a Thompson but somehow ended up with one the cases that the mining company had purchased and never used. I've also been keeping my eyes open for cases to no avail, all though I did hear that one was for sale at SAR east for a handsome price.

Pieces of history for sure.

-Darryl

[colt21a]

that one Swetnam case looks like the one i sold from the Bristow Ok. gun.#7519, even same cond.

 

WIsh i had that one back. the home of pretty boy Floyds wife.

 

nice pics and info great reading. i should have took the pictures of all the cases i went through over 30 in number.

 

maybe next time around in life.Ron /Colt21a

[dalbert]

Bill,

 

It was very good to see you at SAR East last weekend. This is an excellent post, and the amount of time spent researching it is apparent.

 

I think I posted this picture before, but here's a case that Helmer modified for his 1921A. I believe this was a tenor saxophone case prior to the conversion, which would have been around 1970.

 

http://www.sturmgewehr.com/dalbert/Thompson_Pictures/Case_Web.JPG

 

I'll have to ask him if there was any precedent to his choice of the saxophone case for his case conversion. IIRC, he sought out a case that would fit it, and the sax case was the closest fit.

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

[newtommygunner]

Bill. Excellent artical, thanks for posting, very thought povoking. Can imagine the amount of time u spent on researching this.

[gijive]

Bill,

 

Nice post! You have thought this out quite extensively and of course added new insight into the history of the Thompson hardcases.

[darrylta]

It would be nice to have a period correct Thompson Cases pinned topic depicting all the original

cases from the 20's and 40's. It would include the FBI, Chicago, Police, Indiana and Alabama cases from different

manufacturers. Just a thought?

-Darryl

Edited May 12, 2010 by darrylta

[TD.]

Bill,

A great story with excellent original research. I would like to see your work published for all Thompson enthusiasts to enjoy. This is what original research is all about. I can tell you spent a lot of time and effort. My hats off!

 

I encourage every Board member to pick a topic they enjoy and try to find something new about it. That is what makes this Board a special place in cyberspace.

 

Again, thank you for sharing.

[Z3BigDaddy]

Maybe this should be elevated to sticky stature?

[dalbert]

It would be nice to have a period correct Thompson Cases pinned topic depicting all the original

cases from the 20's and 40's. It would include the FBI, Chicago, Police, Indiana and Alabama cases from different

manufacturers. Just a thought?

-Darryl

 

All,

 

I will add this thread listing to the reference section. The idea of a pinned topic for Thompson cases has been discussed before, and maybe now it's time to start putting it together. I have several photos I can offer up, and if board members would like to start sending me pictures of their cases, I will put the pinned thread together, and credit the names of those who provide photos.

 

I'm at the NRA Convention in Charlotte, NC right now, and we're about to meet to go set up our Thompson display for the weekend. I'll try to post pictures of it ASAP.

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

[aut-ord-co]

 

Darryl

Ron

David

Michael

Chuck

Tom

 

Thanks for the positive comments. The search continues. And maybe the post will lead to some new revelations. As Tom(TD) has pointed out, there are other Thompson topics that need fresh eyes and research to add to the history.

 

[darrylta]

An excellent source for case information would of course be Bob-rat-tat. He also has some good pics of some Swetnam and Books Trunk cases in his photo bucket as a starting point. I've always liked the old Indiana cases, there rare as hens teeth but do not surface very often for sale.

-Darryl

[Sculptor]

What a great, well written and researched article. I found it very interesting!

Thanks,

Dick

[dalbert]

I just added this thread to the pinned reference list at the top of the page.

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

[OldFalGuy]

We need a starting point to attempt to spot thes lone original cases-

I bet I have only seen 3 ever.

 

Edited May 16, 2010 by OldFalGuy

[hrt4me]

There are several original cases (as depicted in the first picture) in the gun vault in my office; I know absolutely nothing about the cases, but I could surely go examine, inspect and photograph them if I could first get some pointers beforehand on what to look for and what you want to see...

[Doug Richardson]

posted by mkw

 

I had the good fortune of personally interviewing the man who designed the Thompson FBI hard case. I started to write an article about it but, like a lot of things, I haven't had the time to do it. However, I can tell you that the hard case was designed from scratch. Saxophone cases were not involved and the designer never mentioned using any musical instrument case as a pattern. He did tell me that the customer who had ordered the first case (it wasn't the FBI) did say that he wanted people to think it had a musical instrument inside rather than a machine gun. Your question has jarred my renewed interest in the case so I'll try to find all my old notes when I get some time. Believe it or not, I found a mint condition FBI style hard case in a dumpster in an alley in Los Angeles years ago.

 

[colt21a]

Doug what the heck are you dumpster diving in a alley in L.A.. for?

wink!

keeping the history alive

Ron /Colt21a

[aut-ord-co]

 

Doug,

 

Thanks for the information in your post.

 

Your interview notes would certainly be an interesting read when you get a chance to publish them.

 

I wonder if the gentleman that you talked with worked for Swetnam, Books or Chicago?

[1921A]

This thread is interesting to me because of the research I did when trying to find hardware and original materials to make replica cases. I tend to disagree with the theory that the construction of the original boxes had nothing to do with musical instrument cases. No doubt, someone designed the layout of the box to accept a TSMG but I'd bet the "basic" box was already a "production" item.

 

The two primary sources for most original cases, Swetnam and Chicago Luggage, were manufacturers of musical instrument cases. They produced thousands of similar size and shape boxes for every type of instrument. Production methods would have been streamlined to that end and that means they could make a basic box, in numerous variations, with a few minor changes to the setup. There is also some evidence that the interior design of the case may have been copied from a much earlier Books model. I believe one of our board members has a Books "FBI" style case with documentation from the mid to late 1920's. This would seem to predate Swetnam and Chicago Luggage.

 

Thompson case production was a tiny fraction of manufacturing output. Common sense and economic necessity would dictate using a standard production box with minor changes to accommodate a TSMG. Remember, these cases were not in great demand and orders were primarily one at a time. Producing a few at a time, from scratch, would have been labor intensive and cost prohibitive unless existing product could be adapted.

 

I don't know if there was a music case the exact dimensions of the Thompson case but it doesn’t matter. Adjusting the size and style of a standard box for a small production run would have been a simple, cost effective solution.

 

At one time, I had a Chicago Luggage magazine advertisement picturing a black case roughly the same size and construction as the Thompson case. It showed two illustrations of the box, one closed and one open. The open illustration contained some type of horn, possibly a trumpet or coronet. The box opened just like the Thompson case. Was it the exact case with different interior layout? I don't know but it was certainly very similar.

 

As collectors of this stuff, we sometimes lose perspective and overlook the underlying reason for the existence of these artifacts. Like all companies they were in business to make a profit, pure and simple.

 

Greg Fox

 

[aut-ord-co]

Greg,

 

Thanks for weighing in on this subject. All of the boxes (not just for Thompsons) that Swetnam/Books/Chicago manufactured had to have an origin at some point. Some may have started as a modified musical instrument case or perhaps some were actually designed for a new product. The fact that Swetnam and Chicago made musical instruments is acknowledged. My main point was that the Thompson hardcase didn’t evolve from a saxophone case which is what past and current literature had stated. I added other period musical instruments into the discussion because, thus far, they have shown no close similarity to the Thompson hardcase either.

 

The fact that Chicago Luggage had an advertisement picturing a case that looked like the Thompson case is great and I mentioned in my post that you had this ad. But where are the boxes?

 

As we have seen with AOC, they had advertisements and claims about models and accessories that never were really manufactured in quantity. Or, on the other hand, was the Chicago Luggage design a dud and it never really sold.

 

You point out that the Thompson box was not in great demand and orders for them were piecemeal against the thousands of boxes that were produced. This is another point of mine. Then where are they?

 

Where are a few of those thousands of similar cases. If we see Thompson boxes for sale, where are any of the “missing links” that you state were slightly modified to make the Thompson box and therefore save on production costs. They should be around.

 

It’s conjecture to say, “I’d bet the basic box was already a production item” or “production methods would have been streamlined” or “common sense and economic necessity would dictate”. These statements might be true but they also might not be true.

 

Again, my research spanning several years and viewing thousands of period cases, approached this issue from a different perspective. If there are for sale Thompson cases from time to time, which were produced in very limited numbers, then where are the “missing link” boxes that were produced by the thousands. And secondly, it doesn’t look like a saxophone case is one of the “missing links. No, I haven’t observed every box that has ever been for sale on every auction board or in every antique/music/pawn shop. But no cases with that diagonal split opening, combined with a top mounted handle for ANY purpose has shown up in my observation.

 

You may not accept my research approach or my current conclusions and that is okay and it is expected, but I certainly haven’t “lost any perspective or overlooked the underlying reason for the existence of these artifacts.” Having been involved with manufacturing consulting for over thirty years, I have more than a passing familiarity with unit cost control, production methods, operating standards and plant performance of a wide assortment of American businesses.

 

[Bob@rat-tat-tat]

Ron, Greg, and all.

 

Thanks for "stirring the pot" on the origin of the Thompson hardcase. I've been interested in the origin of the Thompson hardcase for many years.

 

I've always wished that I had taken photos of every hardcase that I've ever seen. There are some interesting variations, and starting a data base for future collectors would be a noble cause.

 

Over the years, I've examined many original cases. I came to the conclusion that NOTHING is standard on any of them. Two cases from the same maker may look similar, but could actually be very different. Of the original cases that I have owned, I've noted variations in the size of the box, types of hardware, types of handles, types of covering material, variations in how the dust lip is installed, interior layout, color of the interior lining, and how the covering is installed. Some have metal "feet", some don't. Some have pressed leather corners, some have steel. Even the leather used to make the interior straps varies in type, width, and design.

 

After making "replica" cases for several years, I've developed my own theories concerning the variations in the originals. It's obvious to me that no attempt was made to match the everything on every case by every maker. That's a sign that cases were made in small runs, by different craftsmen, at different times, with whatever materials were "on-hand" when an order was received. It's almost like the craftsmen were shown an example, and told to "come close".

 

As to the origins of the diagonal closing lid, that is something that will need written documentation to prove one way or the other. It would seem to me that no one would dream up this type of lid without being required to do so for some reason. It greatly increases the time required to produce the case, compared to a more conventional lid arrangement. I question why a company already producing a variety of more conventional cases would voluntarily choose this design. The only explanation that I can suggest is that they were trying to impress a potential customer that might buy a large numer of cases, such as the FBI(?). Of course, they were made in a time when labor was a cheap commodity, and craftsmanship was the standard.

 

If we can get a collection of information, photos and documentation going, I'm all for it!

 

I once bought a very nice original case at a flea market for $50. The lady thought that it must have been some type of instrument case and, of course, I assured her that it was.

 

Regards,

 

Bob Necessary

 

 

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

There is also some evidence that the interior design of the case may have been copied from a much earlier Books model. I believe one of our board members has a Books "FBI" style case with documentation from the mid to late 1920's. This would seem to predate Swetnam and Chicago Luggage.

 

Greg Fox

 

The FBI didn't purchase Colt TSMG's from AOC/Federal Laboratories Inc until probably July, 1934. The Division of Investigation (DOI) didn't officially become the Federal Bureau of Investigation until October, 1935. Did the FBI order Colt TSMG cases built slightly different from the PD cases or did they order an already existing version of the case. If these cases already existed long before the FBI purchased Colt TSMG, how did they pick up the "FBI" style moniker?

 

 

Ron, Greg, and all.

 

As to the origins of the diagonal closing lid, that is something that will need written documentation to prove one way or the other. It would seem to me that no one would dream up this type of lid without being required to do so for some reason. It greatly increases the time required to produce the case, compared to a more conventional lid arrangement. I question why a company already producing a variety of more conventional cases would voluntarily choose this design. The only explanation that I can suggest is that they were trying to impress a potential customer that might buy a large numer of cases, such as the FBI(?). Of course, they were made in a time when labor was a cheap commodity, and craftsmanship was the standard.

 

Regards,

 

Bob Necessary

 

Indeed. Since this design was not associated with any musical instrument case, who came up with this bizarre construction? If the size of the case was the guiding principle, why not a two tier design with the Colt lying flat on the bottom and the L drum, XX mags, and buttstock on a removable top tray with a traditional flat hinged lid with latches where the cleaning rod and spare parts box would be attached to the inside top of the lid?

[colt21a]

when i contacted the new owner or should i say the {Son} of Chicago luggage company. probably now over ten years ago.{ i went to the shop.} he remembered as a kid seeing those laying around in the shop.i had asked do you still have any around. and explained to him what they had been made for.he said nope long gone years ago. and a few went to local pd's.

 

I did not even think of taking his bizz card since it was going no place on my inquiry to him.. he was more interested in selling me whatever cases he had for luggage. however did give me the ten minute talk, the place was under the EL track's in the loop area.might have been near Wabash.

 

i probably have forgotten half the stuff already in the past 40 year's......

tho i can say it was fun while doing it.....can never forget all those trips to every swap meet and antique shop and seller.in indy. wisc.and IL. passing out cards and looking for "Spare Part's Kits"

 

can tell you this i always found them at pd's and also in another collectors hands.{ never in the dozens upon dozens places i checked.}ended up with six in total.

 

I am sure my card is still clipped to some back room wall's in a old shop, with a note: Joe call this guy if we get in the metal box!

it is fun to look back now.wish i had the years back.Ron/ Colt21a

[aut-ord-co]

In observing many different cases over the years, sometimes you’re able to stumble onto one or two that are interesting. As another installment on this Thompson hardcase thread, I thought that I would give a quick view of the Swetnam cases that I’ve been fortunate enough to acquire.

 

There are three Swetnam cases pictured here:

 

The Thompson FBI case is in the middle. (Other pics are shown of this case in the opening post on this thread)

 

The riot shotgun case is in the front. (Other pics shown in this earlier thread http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/ind...l=shotgun+case)

 

In the back is an unusual case that I acquired about six months ago.

 

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/rw50/TSMG%20-%20Sax%20Cases/083.jpg

 

This Swetnam riot shotgun case is a really cool piece of luggage and it’s in great shape. Was it derived from a musical instrument case? I don’t know. It certainly is more conventional in the clamshell way that it opens. Bass clarinet cases come to mind. Also, the lock, latches and handle are all located on the same plane when closed.

 

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/rw50/TSMG%20-%20Sax%20Cases/072.jpg

 

The third case was a surprise with the Swetnam name attached. What was the purpose for manufacturing this case, music or mayhem? Any guesses? The Swetnam metallic manufacturer’s label is on the outside of this case, on the top, under the handle.

 

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/rw50/TSMG%20-%20Sax%20Cases/044.jpg

 

The label is similar to the label in the riot shotgun case except that the attaching rivets are flat rather than round.

 

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/rw50/TSMG%20-%20Sax%20Cases/070.jpg

 

This case opens in a completely different way than other cases that were observed. It seems that whatever was placed in it was somewhat bulky and it was intended to be taken out rather quickly.

 

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/rw50/TSMG%20-%20Sax%20Cases/049.jpg

 

Could there have been a companion box that traveled with the Thompson hardcase for “business” purposes that has been overlooked all these years?

 

And since the Thompson is a hungry firearm, then perhaps this is some bizarre designed ammo box; something like a siege box. But the Feds didn’t show them around much or they didn’t have very many of them and it escaped all cataloging.

 

So maybe this newly discovered box held a neat stack of C-drums.

 

“Grab a few Thompsons, grab the BOX of C-drums!” and you’re ready for the Barkers or the Birgers.

 

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/rw50/TSMG%20-%20Sax%20Cases/AAAMO0.jpg

 

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/rw50/TSMG%20-%20Sax%20Cases/AAAMO2.jpg

 

Well, the mystery is much less glamorous than that. The box is as pictured below. It really is a Swetnam case and it is very well made. It simply carries a coffee urn. There is a positioning block in the lid to align and apply slight pressure to the urn’s dome top handle to secure it.

 

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/rw50/TSMG%20-%20Sax%20Cases/062.jpg

 

I don’t know where this case would fit into the timeline of Swetnam boxology but it probably illustrates that the company would design a case for whatever the customer dragged in.

 

So is this a Swetnam PD coffee urn case or the even rarer Swetnam FBI coffee urn case?

 

 

Alright, fun’s over.