1921A/C for Sale in North Carolina 65K

[Sandman1957]

Not mine, posted yesterday on Subguns.  

 

http://www.subguns.com/classifieds/index.cgi?db=nfafirearms&website=&language=&session_key=&search_and_display_db_button=on&results_format=long&db_id=28313&query=retrieval">http://www.subguns.com/classifieds/index.cgi?db=nfafirearms&website=&language=&session_key=&search_and_display_db_button=on&results_format=long&db_id=28313&query=retrieval

 

Good Hunting...

 

If someone gets very interested in this gun, contact me.  I could go by there and inspect it in person, but that would be over a weekend.  The address I came up with it about 30 minutes from where my Mother lives.  

Edited January 31, 2017 by Sandman1957

[bob241]

Same weapon listed on GB with 104 pictures, not mine, wish it was.

 

 

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/617372078

[bug]

That's a lot of photos. The accessories and extras look great but I think the pictures of the gun are in need of better (more diffused) lighting. I would like to have seen a picture of the draw line and a better look at the type 2 comp.

[gijive]

Bug,

 

I agree. If you read the description on Gunbroker, it says the gun was shipped to the police department in 1930. Guns that early would not have a Type II compensator, unless it was sent back to have one added later. Further on in in the description, it says the gun was in inventory at Auto-Ordnance until 1934. If that is the correct shipment time frame then a Type II compensator would be likely. I'd have some questions and an in-person inspection if I was spending that kind of money for that gun.

[MrBill]

Well Gordon said 6501 was shipped to Cranston RI PD on 6-23-1930. He further states that gun was sold on 5-28-1976 to a dr. Alf Wylier from Kays Guns Pembroke N.H. He further states that Wylier tried to return the gun for misrepresentation of condition. Check pictures carefully/.

[buzz]

Is that Colt worth $65k ?

 

I'm not up to speed on the nuances of pre war thompsons

[huggytree]

i dont believe ive seen one sell for $65k before

 

most sell for $35-45k

 

i had one down to $32k once, but had too many issues

 

didnt someone have a NOS one for sale once for like $100,000?

Edited January 31, 2017 by huggytree

[Black River Militaria CII]

In my view, way too scratched up to bring that kind of money and, even so, then there should be at least two excellent, matching 'C' drums with it to make such a deal.

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

That's a lot of photos. The accessories and extras look great but I think the pictures of the gun are in need of better (more diffused) lighting. I would like to have seen a picture of the draw line and a better look at the type 2 comp.

 

The barrel's draw line appears to be way on the other side of the receiver and the 2nd pattern Cutts shark fin sight appears flatter than other examples and the Cutts pin appears to have a flattened end.

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

Well Gordon said 6501 was shipped to Cranston RI PD on 6-23-1930. He further states that gun was sold on 5-28-1976 to a dr. Alf Wylier from Kays Guns Pembroke N.H. He further states that Wylier tried to return the gun for misrepresentation of condition. Check pictures carefully/.

 

G.H.'s info about Doc Wyller and Kay's Gun Shop (acting as a broker) is preculiar to say the least as G.H. comments that no record exists of such a gun store in Pembroke, New Hampshire. Six months later, Doc Wyler sold this Colt to Roger Cox. Cox may have wanted this particular serial number as he had #6502 and sold them together as a sequential pair for $5,500.

 

Board member Ron Kovar purchased the pair in 1996. Perhaps he can shed more light on #6501.

Edited February 1, 2017 by Arthur Fliegenheimer

[arch stanton]

The Colt I sold last year was nicer than that one and sold a few K under what he is asking

[michaelkih]

Nice package, but isn't $65k crazy high for that gun? The pictures of the gun look like they were purposely not taken well to me. Edited February 1, 2017 by michaelkih

[bug]

Yes, I think so too. I have no idea what the accessory package is worth so I can't separate its value from the 65K. What is the asking price of the gun itself? As gijive said, you'd want to see the gun in person before laying out that kind of cash. The pictures of the gun are lacking.

[colt21a]

I can price all of it in 2006 dollars. When I was stilling looking to buy them after 2010, The market or the sellers and buyers went insane. I still had common sense and street smarts. Nobody followed that old school rule. And said buy it now grab it, even if it is a boat anchor. Like it was the last Colt on earth. And it held some light saber magical power. The magic has worn off with high price and hype.. And the history got lost for many in that period, And was just another piece of steel to make bucks on.

 

And anything somebody can package together is the holy grail....And because they ask a larger buck, It sure must be worth that .How many who bought a Colt 20 or 30 years ago who still have them today, Are thinking I want that one right now for 65 grand..I don't think so. Many probably sit and think can I get 35 grand each if I sell them all right now?

 

WHAT there will be a glut of 35 grand Thompsons on the for sale board. We are A CLOSE knit group.who enjoy these.

Everybody does not want one. And even when Numrich sold the 1928 model for 8OO buck's back when. They did not have thousands clamoring to buy them. Remember when I got the call when they had the M1'S ready to go and asked hey you want 20 for 500 bucks a pop. And ten 28's for 800, I said sure why not. It took me over a year to sell them.

Sure guys today would say hey I want one for a $1,000.00 back in the 80's a lot was going on.And they still did not want the wait and 200 buck tax.

 

Today pay the piper and wait what six months to a year to take it home. Like walking into the Chevy dealership paying 65 grand and they tell you hey brother thanks you get the keys and can drive that Vette out in a year..

 

It was bad enough back when waiting two months with all that money out. However I do realize Insanity today rules the day.Like telling the WW1 doughboy you jumped over that trench straight into the Maxim are you nuts?

And he answers what else was I to do. Everybody else was doing it.

Colt21a

 

 

[Sandman1957]

From my point of view most 1960 - 70s era NFA types were "shooters" more than "collectors". They wanted to shoot the guns they saw in movies and history books, me included. I was not able to get a TSMG until the mid 1980's. Started as a "shooter" and as I got more money I became more of a "collector" than shooter. With the supply and demand getting broken on NFA in 1986, the fair market value got skewed as there were more shooters and collectors than ever before, but; no more "supply". More movies, video games, more interest in guns, but; no more "supply".

 

Market kept increasing. Mutual Funds and Stocks were soaring and then they crashed. Hard. Housing market crashed. Along came the "new guy" the "investor". Some folks started hedging their bets... put some wealth into NFA..."its still holding its value; still "increasing" in value! After awhile, you started seeing it in newspapers (on occasion,)... NFA, good investment. There are many who buy NFA and they stay in safes, just incubating until the owner is ready to sell. No-one's hand's in your pocket, skimming your take. No monthly, or annual fees to a broker etc. ALL THESE THINGS have changed the market. When will it crash? No-one knows. We can only guess. The COLT Thompson's are the oldest and soon to be 100 years old. Still run like sewing machines. As I have said for years, Hollywood will remake Bonnie and Clyde, Dillinger etc and do 'Roaring 20s movies". They are being made and coming on the screens. How much do actors and football players make now? I wonder how many of them have invested in NFA? Some for sure.

 

Bottom line. Yes they are more expensive than I would have EVER imagined. I have enjoyed them, and still do. Overtime, all mine will be sold, maybe keep one to pass on, if my daughter wants one. I would love for a future grandson to have one of the guns in "Grand Dad's Attic" if you remember that photo. Today, I think there are more investors and collector's than shooters. A lot of Shooters have FFL and Class III so they can shoot Pre and Post 86's... However, They "invest" in Form 4s. Keep em as Safe queens"

 

Perhaps with "adult leadership" back in the Nation's Capitol, things will settle down for awhile. That was another aspect, "panic buying" or "hedge fund" buying. Look, these are going to be outlawed so lets buy them now and scalp people later...

 

Yep, the market has been crazy. I have enjoyed it.

 

Cheers,

Sandman1957

[buzz]

I don't think there is anything all that remarkable about these high MG prices.

 

It's a tiny, finite supply of guns.

 

The MG market has gone from being almost unknown to being the hottest type of collector item.

 

How many M1 Thompsons are for sale at any given time? One maybe?

 

That's a pretty small supply for a country of 350 million.

 

People are paying $200k for 60s muscle cars and $50k for 1950s guitars. Why wouldn't they pay $50k for a Thompson?

[Sandman1957]

Great Points!!

[buzz]

I think the reason that NFA guns became such a hot item with collectors is because of youtube.

 

There are some machine gun videos that random people posted that have millions of views.

 

That kind of thing really puts the word out there about NFA MGs.

 

Plus the videos are very appealing, they make the guns look really cool. Any marketing textbook will tell you that human beings are visual, they respond very strongly when they are shown something. As opposed to being told about it.

[TD.]

Prospective buyers would be well advised to read some of the above posts about the condition of NO 6501. Another area of concern to me would be the Spare Parts Kit and Cleaning Rod. Is the kit original or a Gordon Herigstad reproduction? Same with the cleaning rod. You better be able to tell the difference as these items represent a lot of money in today's market. The contents of the Spare Parts Kit concern me. I have never seen one with an original Colt era ejector; but Gordon certainly made a reproduction of this item. Again, same with the cleaning brush and thong.

[colt21a]

I had around six or seven Spare parts kits. {one was supposed to been owned by Steve McQueen} {Yes he had a 21Thompson}

I had one still new in wrap waxed oiled paper from some Oklahoma P.D. #7519 That the chief said they ordered with the gun.

 

And was included in the package. Also the browned envelope instruction sheet. Fairly rare item I have only seen two, and owned both of them. Sent to Tracy for his first book. Just like the pic in Rogers book of the Chicago Police Hardcase which I owned also. What a doozy of a tale to get that one, And not sure if Eric or Jerry own it now. it went back and forth among three buyers and sellers.

 

I am sure there are many Spare parts kits out there. I showed Earl my new in wrap one. he had two in his cabinet around 1999, And he said to me he himself had never seen a brand new one in the wrap. And like myself I never did either.until I opened the police case and there it was.I Sold Gun to Birmingham Pistol Parlor along with a lettered Colt Commercial 1919 B.A.R. I also Sold Mike IN PA. who is Mentioned in Rogers book who I also sold #3798 to, along with another Spare parts kit.

 

When Gordon was doing the book and came to visit there were over 40 numbers he never did get.{Which are listed in the book in other area's.}I really do wish now I had documented all the sale stuff. and every unique item, However I was not doing any book, or keeping any record for anyone, I was having too much fun, buying selling traveling and locating the stuff.

 

and much of it was not pictured. {But I am a guy who does not make crap up and calls them as i see them.}

and was not ever jealous what anybody had but wanted to learn from it or buy and acquire it.

 

I did make many a ticked off girlfriend or wife. since when they knew Ron called. money would flow from the joint acct. or savings. Sad to say I offered to buy back many of those items over the years. and did not get any sellers back to me. It was always thanks RON its not for sale.If I was involved with it today. its more $$$$ deal, and some investment thing.

 

yeah it was Romance to me.And History the world would never understand. From a no nuttins south side Chicago kid.who never wanted to hear. GO GET YOUR SHINE BOX!

 

Colt21a Ron

[colt21a]

Also just remembered I sent Gordon that Aug 21st 1920 letter that Thompson sent to Colt and the other Mar. 29,1921 letter also. That was in a box of stuff from Auto Ord over 30 years ago, Employee held many boxes of stuff. Tracie got all of it from Hal and Dave at knob creek.

A number of copies are now floating around.

 

God I just gave stuff away over the years.But had fun in the making ha ha Colt21a

[michaelkih]

How much does a real spare parts kit cost nowadays?

[TD.]

I have not seen an original Spare Parts Kit for sale in several years. I would guess an original kit in good condition without contents would start at $4000 and go up in price depending on condition, added original contents, and desire of the buyer. These kits are far from common. The Herigstad reproduction kits are problematic because they are very close (not perfect) to the original and not marked as reproductions. You have to know what you are buying!

[rpbcps]

Indeed, I regret not buying a Herigstad reproduction kit from Gordon when I had that opportunity.

 

Stay safe

Richard

[michaelkih]

Cool thanks. I'll definitely have to snag a real one up when one ever comes up for sale.