reconbob Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 $21,025. Sargent Schultz has just sold a Thompson...."I know nothing". And "Sellout" is now the proudowner of an original low numbered rewelded Thompson. If anyone knows "Sellout" send him a copyof this thread. The seller has established a new reputation for himself, and it is well earned and welldeserved. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsonlmg41 Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 You guys do realize he's never seen this gun before right? Most of what he sells is brokered and he rarely, if ever takes possesion. Often the owners seem to know little more than he does so if you read the descriptions on most of his auctions they are less than informative. Most of the descriptions seem to be from wikepedia? Buyer beware. .You might as well deal with urban armory. That guy has never touched a MG, much less owned one, yet people still send money? Stunning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The1930sRust Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Eh, it's still a Thompson...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnshooter Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) Eh, it's still a Thompson......Several Thompsons, actually. Edited January 3, 2014 by mnshooter 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The1930sRust Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Ha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandman1957 Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Bluntly, I have on more than one occassion, recommended to some of my friends to shy away from and NOT BID on his offers, as I do not trust what he says. There are many reputable dealers one can deal with and I don't recommend anyone who lacks integrity. Integrity is doing the right thing. He has a long history of not doing that. My opinion only. He will always find a buyer... but I have warned some away, and led them to better (honest) guns and dealers.Semper FiSanman1957 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphinvet Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Does it matter if this is a 1928 or an M1? See the left side of my M1 AOC Bridgeport Thompson. http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j331/Dolphinvet/DSCN1000.jpeg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzz Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 LOL Several thompsons. A two for one sale! You guys did an awesome job picking this ad apart, I learned a lot from this thread. Very interesting and illuminating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speeddemon02 Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 I have a savage 28a1 in the 82000 serial range and manufacturing info is toward the rear under the rear sight and the patent dates are forward of that by the trigger group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bug Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 I have a savage 28a1 in the 82000 serial range and manufacturing info is toward the rear under the rear sight and the patent dates are forward of that by the trigger group. Does this gun have pat dates or numbers?? Bob D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 I had only glanced at this thread once, early on, until today. Yesterday at OGCA, I had lunch with First Sergeant and TD., and they discussed it in detail. I have to say there has been excellent analysis throughout. I awarded my full daily alottment of reputation points to individual posts throughout the thread, and would still like to give a few more. Reconbob has proven beyond any shadow of doubt, in my opinion, that this Thompson is a reweld. A good one, at that, but still a reweld, and also still a Thompson, as Rust mentioned. I also like the "Thompsons" reference. :-) I'll be adding this thread to the pinned reference post list at the top of the board. The new buyer should be fully informed regarding what he purchased. In my opinion, this Thompson would probably sell for $5K less had the seller informed the potential buyers of the issues ahead of time. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the seller had a serious concern about the validity of the item being auctioned, I think he could have stopped it from proceeding to payment. He should also have informed the buyer about what he learned during the auction, in my opinion. David Albertdalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reconbob Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 I emailed the seller, introduced myself, and gave him a list (by no mean complete)withside by side photos of the problems with this Thompson showing that it is welded andremachined and not an "original" gun, and invited any comments he may have. I agree with Dave and mentioned 1/2 way thru the thread that what should have happenedis for the gun to be accurately described by means of an additional post to the auction, andfor the seller to waive any existing bids for those who wished to. If all bids were waived, startover with the gun accurately described. I also agree that the gun sold for much more than itwould have if the description was accurate. This would be a good pinned topic. We often get the "looking to buy my first Thompson"guys joining the board and this would be perfect reading. Many years ago I was the victim of a similar episode. I was in college and bought anM-1 Garand from a high profile dealer. This was back when Garands were very hard tofind because many were still in inventory with the National Guard and also were beingissued to ARVN in Vietnam. I went and inspected the gun on the dealers premiseswhich were in Brooklyn NY. The rifle looked perfect and I asked the guy ifit was a reweld and he said "no". I had the rifle shipped to Sarco becauseI had a part time job there as a rookie gunsmith, or perhaps more accurately an "ordnancemechanic". I will never forget the laughter from the back of the shop when theexperienced gunsmith looked it over and shouted out: "Bob, its a reweld!" I hope that the buyer of this Thompson knows that the gun is welded. If so, and he is stillhappy with his purchase, ok. But if not he should get his money back. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 This thread is now listed as the first link in the "Collector Interest" section of the pinned reference post at the top of the board. reconbob, I appreciate you reaching out to the seller. Did they respond back to you? David Albertdalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph12297 Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Thank you David and Bob... Very good info to post... Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bug Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 I wonder what a few Xrays would reveal.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reconbob Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Funny you should ask...years ago I thought that by x-raying a welded receiver you would be ableto see the weld. I took a welded Garand receiver to an industrial X-ray inspection company. The resultwas disappointing. I expected the weld to show up a different color, but the only thing that showedup was a tiny dot that was lighter in color which I assumed to be a gap deep in the weld that wasnot visible from the surface. So a perfect weld would not be detectable by an X-ray. From Parkerizing hundreds of Garands over the years one thing that does happen is that once ina while you get a receiver welded with filler rod that has a lot of nickel and chrome in it and is"stainless" to the extent that it will not take the Parkerizing. In this instance the entire weld ends upan easily visible silver grey while the rest of the receiver is dark slate grey. We know the gun is question is welded, but it would be interesting to know the extent of the weld.I think the reason there are no inspectors marks is because the weld included that area as well. Bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnshooter Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 The buyer presumably has another 9 months to discover this board. Franks states a 3 day money back guarantee after receiving the gun. Will be watching for the auctions in the fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The1930sRust Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Is there any way we can reach out to the buyer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzz Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 I wonder if anything but x-ray would work to find a weld like magnafluxing or something like that any field welding is going to have a ton of inclusions and discontinuities in it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Dudley Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 I looked at a British lend lease 1928 when I first began my Thompson search. It was a rewat and very nicely done. The barrel had been plugged and pinned by drilling in the receiver nose and welding the pin. I didn't have the knowledge that I have gleaned from this forum then, and I was skeptical of the repair, even though the weld area was smoothe and the reblue very nice, all in all a beautifully refinished and rebarreled gun. I used a small LED light to look at the finish, bore and internals. As I passed the light by the front right side of the receiver I could see the weld area reflect light differently under the new blued finish. In natural light it was not visible. The seller had not seen this before and was a little upset. I liked the gun and accessories and made an offer about $2000.00 less than asking price, and I was still a little uncomfortable about my offer because of my lack of Thompson/rewat knowledge and the welding of that area of the gun. In hindsight, I wished I had purchased the gun. The rewat welding was very good and cosmetically excellent. It had British proof marks and sling modifications and a very good looking gun. U D 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron_brock Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 I wonder if anything but x-ray would work to find a weld like magnafluxing or something like that any field welding is going to have a ton of inclusions and discontinuities in it Magna flux would only detect surface defects, not anything subsurface. Hardness measurements would detect the weld and heat affected zone, but most likely nobody would like to have a few Brinnell hardness indents on the side of their receiver. - Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgeport28A1 Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) Interesting post regarding x-rays and welds. The 1911A1 collectors usually talk about x-raying suspect Singer 45's in regards to detecting a fraudulent Singer receiver or slide. Even a small AA flashlight used on firearm finishes reveals a lot that can not be seen under lighting or sunlight. The 3 day money back guarantee after receipt mentioned by mnshooter does indeed give Gunbroker member Sellout19 the BATF transfer waiting time to find this thread or run into someone who frequents the board before his three day clock begins ticking upon receipt. Hopefully since he has now has bought a Thompson he will start to look for more information on his Thompson and accessories and maybe….just maybe find this board and the thread on his Thompson. He has only two Gunbroker feedbacks so contacting him through the Gunbroker system will be difficult unless he posts an item for sale on Gunbroker. Edited January 6, 2014 by Bridgeport28A1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD. Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Speeddemon's Savage Thompson in the 82,000 serial number range matches the right side markings of the Thompson sold on gunbroker. It has patent numbers. I had an e-mail from a Board member who has a Savage in the 125,000 serial number range that has markings identical to the pattern of the great majority of Savage Thompsons with the Bridgeport address and all known Auto-Ordnance Bridgeport (AOB) Thompsons (patent numbers at the rear of the receiver under the rear sight and Bridgeport address towards the front of the receiver). Does anyone else on this Board have a Savage Thompson in the 80,000 to say 120,000 serial number range? Or an AOB Thompson whose right side markings match the gunbroker.com Thompson? Whoever manufactured this Thompson and marked it with an AOB serial number had the misfortune to choose a receiver stub manufactured by Savage Arms with a short production run. You will not find this information anywhere but on this Board. The works by Hill, Iannamico, Richardson or Cox do not contain information on this Savage receiver variation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 I just approved a membership for a member by the same name as the buyer in the Gunbroker auction, so hopefully he will weigh in here shortly... David Albertdalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob241 Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 On page 313 of Tracie L Hills book, the Ultimate Thompson book,the following is printed on the top right of that page."After the Thompson Automatic Arms Co moved the primary operation and offices of Auto-Ordance to Bridgeport, Conn, the marking dies of Savage produced thompsons were changed to reflect their new address. The corporation new address was relocated to the center of the right side of the receiver, while the patent numbers were moved to the rear of the receiver's right side" the Bridgeport, Conn bulding was purchased in August 1940, move in was after Jan 1941, book also states no receivers were build for 6 months, as the first 6 months were spent setting up the plant and mfg cutters and inspection equipment. On page 307 is a list of Savage/Auto- Ordance contracts , and by Jan 10, 1941 Savage had contracts to build at least 144,000 1928A1 thompsons, 50,000 of these to have no "S" S/N prefix .How many were rolled stamped with the Ny address, and how many were rolled stamped with the Conn address, I have no Idea. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now