1928AC opinions {going to pass}

[mgvince]

Looking at this to purchase. What do you think? I will be able to only buy one Thompson. Is this a good one.

 

Thanks all

Edited March 19, 2014 by mgvince

[TD.]

Quick question: Does the frame serial number match the receiver serial number? I can tell it is an Auto-Ordnance Bridgeport frame so that is a good start. I will comment more later tonight.

[Robert Henley]

Looks good to me from the pictures. I would be proud to own it.

[mnshooter]

Comp looks terribly pitted. Right.

Another one you should just forget, and send me the address so I can see to it's removal from the gullible purchasing public.

 

 

One more time: What are You Waiting For? Buy It!

Edited March 16, 2014 by mnshooter

[mgvince]

I've asked seller if the numbers match. Waiting on reply. I've made an offer. Will see what he thinks. Any current price that I should work for?

 

My original criteria was '40s vintage, finned barrel and adjustable sights. This one has the "L" sight, but that wouldn't be a deal breaker for me. I just like the look. I know original sights are available.

[Robert Henley]

I prefer the "L" sight personally. You'll get a wide range of opinions on value, and depending on lower matching (probably not I'm guessing although if so that would be a pleasant surprise) and condition. I'd want to see some close ups of the inside of the receiver and the internals and ask whether the receiver has ever been cut or welded. These factors could substantially affect the value IMO. If uncut and in good condition, around $17K give or take a few thousand.

[jim c 351]

Vince,

The only thing that caught my eye is that the grip hanger is not tight against the barrel. It should be. Doug R even makes a special tool to pull the grip hanger away from the barrel when changing barrels.

Not sure what to make about it. Maybe reconbob can shed more light .

I wouldn't worry all that much about matching numbers. After all, everyone who owns a West Hurley has a trigger frame that's not original to the receiver and they have a lot of fun just the same,

Jim C

[dalbert]

I'd be interested to know when this TSMG entered the registry. It is sans the "U.S." marking, and the "A1" has been overstamped with "AC," and it has no military inspection marks. I know of another like it that entered the registry from AOC in 1946. I think it's a nice TSMG, but it's not a WWII military issued gun, from what I see in the pictures, and from the model designation. Some speculation exists that some of these were sold during the war, prior to the end of production, and we've seen examples of 1928's being sold by AOC after they stopped military production.

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

[mgvince]

I noticed the grip hanger also. All the pics I've seen of them show close or touching the barrel. Is that easily fixed? According to the owner it's all original and no work has been done that he knows of.

 

I've made an offer lower than his asking price, so I'm waiting to hear back. If we settle on a price. I wrote him I would drive to see the gun. About a 9 hour drive. But I have a brother in law an hour from the seller, so I could stay there and drive back later. A $20,000 purchase unseen in person, is a very unnerving thought.

[reconbob]

The pictures look ok....BUT, after what we have seen lately what really counts, at least in my mind

is a detailed inspection of the inside of the receiver to see if the gun has been remachined due to welding.

I am NOT saying this gun is a reweld, I am saying that for the amount of money any Thompson will go for

you must field strip the gun so you can get a good look at the inside of the receiver. The gun does not have

the original factory finish - it has been the shot peened finish you see on a lot of military rebuilds.

Anyway, safety first. Look at the inside of the receiver.

 

Bob

[mgvince]

Yes; A purchase would would be on condition of in hand inspection. I read the pinned thread on AC variations. It took a little doing to get it loaded. It looks like most all the ACs had been blasted before finished. All the photos I've seen of them show the same type of finish on the receiver with blued barrels.

[Bridgeport28A1]

Nice looking receiver of the AC variation of a "Bridgeport" and overall SMG. I have a military proofed one around 1500 higher than this one. Mine has a smooth barrel L sight. The drooping grip mount and the finned barrel might be connected if it was changed from the original configuration.

 

You own't have to worry about shooting this one.

 

TD. will be along shortly as I believe he has an interest in unraveling the facts behind the 1928A1 to 1928 AC guns. This one was not originally stamped Us and ground out.

Edited March 17, 2014 by Bridgeport28A1

[TD.]

I think it is a pretty nice looking "AC" Thompson based solely on the pictures. It is not a military gun. It is what I often refer to tongue-in-check as the Auto-Ordnance Commercial Thompson. On a serious note it is a commercial product sold by Auto-Ordnance Corporation as early as 1943 and later by the Auto-Ordnance Division of Maguire Industries as late as 1946. These dates could easily be earlier and later as there is much to learn about this variation.

 

I agree about the grip mount. My guess is the barrel has been changed. That is only a guess but most of these AC guns seem to have a smooth barrel. The bent grip mount makes me think someone bent it while upgrading the barrel. The grip mount is not a deal breaker but something you want to replace or repair in the future. I would send a quick e-mail to reconbob to see if a repair is feasible or if a replacement part is needed. There is probably no rush to repair it but you can use it as a bargaining point.

 

A matching frame will add some value. Or make the gun more desirable should you decide to sell in the future. And the gun will be sold in the future unless you intend to be buried with it.

 

Rub your finger on the receiver beside the word "MODEL" to see if there is any depression.

 

It will make an excellent shooter. I advise against changing out the rear sight. The L sight was very common for this variation. I would not try to improve it because the original sight will never go back perfectly. Changing out a barrel or grip mount is an easy change for someone who has the proper tools and knowledge.

 

A hands on inspection is a great idea. I suggest removing the vertical fore grip and to see if the letter "S" is stamped in the grip mount channel.

 

The Bridgeport drum is a good accessory. I would see what else may be available.

 

The owner told you this Thompson has not been messed with. How long has he owned it? When you are with him, ask him to see the ATF form that transferred this Thompson to him. Ask for this copy (promise to provide him a copy of this copy) of this form but take a picture of the form with your camera or smart phone. Take several pictures. Ask him if he knows where the person or dealer he purchased it from obtained it. Ask him for any older ATF forms. You never know unless you ask. This Thompson was more than likely sold to a Law Enforcement Organization between 1943 and 1946. It would be nice to know its history if you purchase it. Find out before you hand over any money how many past owners you can identify. When you get it you can do a Freedom of Information Act request but this information is limited. You are in the drivers seat right now. Find out all you can - and get copies.

 

I like it but you have to know what you are buying. The AC variation is much less common than the military issue 1928 or 1928A1 and is less appreciated. It also does not seem to bring quite the dollars but the gap is small. I know I would be happy with what I see.

 

Good luck!

[gijive]

A hands on inspection is a great idea. I suggest removing the vertical fore grip and to see if the letter "S" is stamped in the grip mount channel.

Tom,

 

As you know, I am interested in this variation, too! Several of the Board Members have posted pictures of their AOC "1928 AC" guns and very often the front vertical grip appears to be an original Colt grip. AOC must have had many of these left over from the Colt production. I'd be willling to bet that the front grip on the gun in question does not have an "S" stamp. I blieve that to be a genuine original Colt Thompson grip. The rear grip actually looks like a Colt production grip, as well.

[Robert Henley]

I noticed the witness mark on the barrel did not appear to line up, which led me to believe that the barrel had been changed out.

[mnshooter]

I noticed the witness mark on the barrel did not appear to line up, which led me to believe that the barrel had been changed out.

 

The slightly low camera angle might be contributing to that image. Or not.

 

However, there is a punch mark under the comp pin that indicates the pin was removed at least once.

[TD.]

mgvince,

gijive and I have to know about the front grip on this AC Thompson. Every time I bet against gijive it costs me a drink at The American Thompson Association Show and Shoot. Let us know the results and you can join us for one this August.

 

On a serious note gijive's comments are probably right on point. It would be a real plus if the two grips are Colt era products.

[darrylta]

I agree with gijive, the two grips are of the Colt era.

It appears to be a nice later AOC commercial stamped gun, well

worth the sale investigation, it you can get it in the mid to high teens,,

I'd go for it.

-Darryl

[mgvince]

Thanks, all who have responded. I got an e-mail back about my offer. The gun is being brokered thru an SOT. The deal on the gun, is that the owner has a serial number matching West Hurley .22lr semi auto Thompson 1927. He wants them both to go together. The original price of the pair is $24,500. I offered $20,500 for just the 1928 with the drum and two stick mags. I have no interest in the .22 and I don't think it is worth that much anyway.

 

Seller has countered with $22,000 for the pair. I guess he really wants them to go together.

 

I was thinking also from some of your responses that the barrel may have been changed. Does that impact the value greatly? I,m thinking that $20,500 may be to high, from what has been posted.

 

My intent on a Thompson purchase was to be below $20,000. Is that a realistic price for a vintage gun. Or am I not being realistic? I anyone is in the Fond du Lac Wisconsin area they might be able to look at it.

 

Should I pass on this and keep looking? I don't think he will come down much from $22,000. I haven't gotten word if the receiver and frame numbers match yet. I'll ask again and stall on the counter offer.

 

I thank you all for your information. If any of the experts wants to, feel free to give me a call. 816-244-0283

 

Vince

Edited March 17, 2014 by mgvince

[Robert Henley]

That's too much IMO. You're getting up in low end Colt territory. I would continue to look, and if you want to spend that much maybe hunt for a shooter grade Colt. That's my two cents worth. With that said, someone here has a saying that "I didn't pay too much I just bought too early" or something like that, i.e., the prices seem to keep going up (sort of like what happens in a bubble others have said). Robert

[jim c 351]

Vince,

I wouldn't pass on the gun just because the barrel has been changed. I have 2 guns with non original barrels and enjoy the hell out of them.

On the other hand I wouldn't want to be forced to buy a junk 22 for $1500.00 either.

Your offer of 20.5K seems quite reasonable. The drum is worth $500.00 so your paying 20K for the gun.

Its up to you but I'd just tell him he can keep them both together at 20.5K.

I wouldn't worry about matching numbers either. Neither of mine match and I loose no sleep at night.

The only thing I wonder about is the grip hanger.

Jim C

PS FWIW Sgt. Saunders Thompson didn't have matching numbers either.

[colt21a]

You getting it from Charlie or Jerry? grips are Colt. finish looks actually real good.and not done in past few years. check out internal's rewelds sometimes show more on the outside real fast. this one does not look like it from the outside in the pics I am seeing. probably put a finned on it, since many had smooth by this time period. {we all know about that history already}for $18,000.00 it would be a good deal..Oh my GOD did I just say that.sold my last one for $5,000.00 okay it was ten years ago.

 

I can't figure out buying 22cal with it is a forced sale deal or what??tell him you want the main gun with drum. and a stick mag.if either one of these guys you are good to go. did bizz with both for decades.. and Jerry bought a ton of Thompson stuff from me over the years.if you go see it and pay in full take everything minus rec.including the part s and all wood with you. you own it at that point. >the rest is just paperwork..If they won't do that spend the $20,000 or less someplace else.

 

and don't be really excited when there. you hold the cash you hold the excitement.. did this for forty years. so have a little know ledge in this area.

 

most think i'm too old to help anymore.. but like Doug I have forgotten more then they will ever know in 30 years.. ha ha..good luck.senile Colt 21a Ron... looked at the pics more check out the actuator when there.looks blue. and Bolt..looks like a straight gun , a little better then what has been for sale recently.. lying wes hurlee guns and such. and I would rather own this then any hurleee Okay mr rust has a nice one.this will make a good shooter until a decent Colt comes around.never have a Colt to shoot unless its a boat anchor,for the first time you break something you will be levid..GOOD LUCK!

Edited March 17, 2014 by colt21a

[colt21a]

That's too much IMO. You're getting up in low end Colt territory. I would continue to look, and if you want to spend that much maybe hunt for a shooter grade Colt. That's my two cents worth. With that said, someone here has a saying that "I didn't pay too much I just bought too early" or something like that, i.e., the prices seem to keep going up (sort of like what happens in a bubble others have said). Robert

its really worth #10,000 today but don't tell anybody they are all paying more every month and over paying and overpaying..

 

from the time of $1,000.00 Colt's..and not many can make that statement..and low end colt now who know's they are paying $8,000.00 for kits.. nuts nuts nuts. RON Colt 21a

[Robert Henley]

I don't think you can get any advice better than the above. I was thinking that's a lot of cash even today, not many people have, and you know the old saying about money talks and you know the rest of the story.

[mgvince]

colt21a Charlie is brokering the gun. He has it on his web site. I talked to him In Louisville about the gun.

 

It's really scary thinking about spending That kind of money on a gun. I bought my AC556 in '98 for $1,800. And I would want current market price if I were to sell it.