Gangster Gun, Serial # Revealed !

[OCM]

Great, thanks. Definitely NOT HS Lebman's style of serial number removal. I guess that's how you'd say it. The two Nelson Thompsons recovered at the Little Bo battle had the same method of grinding off as Colt Choppers, assume the Van Meter one destroyed and the other mystery one the same. ( assuming )

 

OCM

[gijive]

All,

 

I am posting the below newspaper articles and photos at the request of Colt Chopper. He would have posted the information himself, but he was getting a manicure at the time and his nails weren't dry. He was freshening up for his meeting with his biographer to record his memoirs. Anyway, he hopes that you enjoy the following articles:

 

 

Brainerd Bank Robbery.

 

 

Bandits make their escape.

 

 

Escape continued.

 

 

Chopper's Thompson.

 

 

Bank sues.

 

 

Bank gets award.

 

 

Proceeds turned over to bank.

 

And that, my friends, is how Chopper's Thompson got back into private commerce. Certainly, it is unlikely that in today's "politically correct" atmosphere that a bank would be awarded a machine gun, but it was 1933 and the NFA had not even become law. So, the mystery is solved. Still not sure how the Chief from Manitowoc PD obtained it, but that is kind of a moot point now. There is solid provenance as to its origin.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[OCM]

Chuck,

Glad you added the rest of this story, was waiting for CC to open this up. Sent some stuff to CC, hoping the Brainerd folks will give us what happened beyond that . They are/were thinking of doing a Dillinger Day thing like the Jesse James Northfield raid days, about the Brainerd robbery. See what happens

Yes a moot point but we'd like to see where it went now, to Manitowoc or wherever. Got a lot of fill in the blank stuff, but like to see this void solved.

Great job digging this stuff up. The picture of CC's Thompson- classic. Hope the newspaper photo morgue still has an original.

Hope you , Geraldo Rivera and Colt Chopper get the Biography straight- Looking forward to it.

 

OCM

[HANS]

Gun Pic.jpg

 

 

Awesome! Do you have more information on the rifles and pistols and the various magazines? They are difficult to make out, and of course there is no info on calibres, serial numbers, number and capacities of the magazines, etc. I'm surprised that there were two rifles, all the sources I've seen mention one rifle and one shotgun (but of course lack any details).

 

Cheers

 

HANS

[gijive]

Hans,

 

Good question. We are in the process of trying to obtain more information on the actual raid. If we are successful, I will post the results in the future. In the meantime, here is a lightened version of the newspaper photo.

 

 

 

[USMC0802]

The "rifle" in the center of that newspaper photo looks an awfully lot like a Browning A5 or Remington 11 with the barrel removed and set to the right of the action. Looks like Detective Smith is holding it with his left hand, and there is definitely something "missing" in front of the receiver.

[OCM]

Photo was taken by Tribune Staff Photographer, Chicago Tribune ? Check the Brainerd Library, see if they have the old newspapers in file or on a electronic device. Fairly common. Might get more of a first generation look at it. CC was happy to see the stock on the Thompson.

[Petroleum 1]

No mention of how the gun came into the possession of franks whether it was sold or consigned by a family member of the MPD chief who originally took possession of it from the bank or did I miss that part? Edited October 22, 2017 by Petroleum 1

[Bridgeport28A1]

Photo was taken by Tribune Staff Photographer, Chicago Tribune ? Check the Brainerd Library, see if they have the old newspapers in file or on a electronic device. Fairly common. Might get more of a first generation look at it. CC was happy to see the stock on the Thompson.

 

The Minneapolis Tribune newspaper was the morning newspaper in Minneapolis. The Minneapolis Star was the afternoon newspaper. Today they are combined as the Star Tribune.

[OCM]

So best to check maybe with the Minneapolis Tribune and the local Brainerd news service, for an original photo ? I think Chuck already hit most of the area newspapers and picked up the key pieces to the puzzle.

 

Petroleum 1- I think CC has the paper trail from about 1970 till the present. From the Manitowoc PD ( that nobody seems to know about ) to the present.

It's the Brainerd Bank, as Chuck says , into private commerce, till today. So much has gone on with this historic gun, get's confusing, at least for this old noggin.

The main historical find ( Nelson gun ) is solved, but with this historical gun, it almost mandatory to attempt to follow it's path from Baby Face Nelson to Colt Chopper. Some of us are working on that fact.

Then, THAT would be the end of the story ( maybe )

And it's a kick in the butt to research and follow.

[gijive]

No mention of how the gun came into the possession of franks whether it was sold or consigned by a family member of the MPD chief who originally took possession of it from the bank or did I miss that part?

Petroleum 1,

 

The gun was privately owned from 1971 until 2016. It was consigned to the dealer Chopper bought it from by the estate of the person who owned it from 1971 on. By the way, the former owner never knew the true origin and history of the gun. The story that went with it was that it had something to do with a bank robbery in Minnesota, that was it.

[Petroleum 1]

I was thinking maybe the bank got weirded out about taking possession of the TSMG and told the MPD to hang on to it for them. Interesting stuff thx Vinny Edited October 22, 2017 by Petroleum 1

[HANS]

Hans,

 

Good question. We are in the process of trying to obtain more information on the actual raid. If we are successful, I will post the results in the future. In the meantime, here is a lightened version of the newspaper photo.

 

Recovered Weapons.jpg

 

Thanks for this. I think I agree with USMC802 that the weapon in the middle is a Browning Auto-5 or Remington Model 11. This would also make sense in light of other sources that claim one of the three long arms was a shotgun.

The weapon on the left is difficult, but the charging handle is pretty unique. Looks like a Remington Model 8 to me.

The magazines on top of the suitcase all almost certainly not for the "automatic rifles" but for the Thompson. Looks like two or three Type XX mags.

Check out the thingie in front of the suitcase. It's very blurry, but I think that could be a tear gas hand grenade.

 

Cheers

 

HANS

[USMC0802]

Agree with the magazines looking like TSMG XXs. On second look, the weapon on the left kind of also looks like an A5/Model 11 - appears that there is a cap on the end of the fore-end. Options for centerfire automatic rifles are fairly limited...it's definitely not a Winchester and what looks like a magazine cap is contrary to what I'd expect on a Remington. Perhaps that is a PD shotgun and the third confiscated long arm isn't in the photo? All just speculation - be neat to see the original photo if it can indeed be tracked down!

[Colt Chopper]

The Brainerd Bank was robbed 84 years ago TODAY. Monday morning, October 23.

 

Kind of a twilight zone moment, the 1933 and 2017 calendars are identical.

[Petroleum 1]

They got a big haul too...$34,242.94 which is worth over $631K in todays dollars.

[OCM]

This is the Brainerd bank, about the time Nelson & his group robbed it-

 

Kid on the bike in the front right, is Colt Chopper waiting to pick up his gun.

 

Time Machine moment

 

OCM

[Bridgeport28A1]

https://blogs.mprnews.org/newscut/2013/05/the_day_baby_face_nelson_came/

[Petroleum 1]

https://blogs.mprnews.org/newscut/2013/05/the_day_baby_face_nelson_came/

Good read thanks for posting

[dalbert]

I enjoyed the article, too. I wonder if any bullets from the shootout are still around? If so, it would be a fun forensic examination to compare them to CC's Colt Thompson...

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

[full auto 45]

The old bank is now a Consignment shop. Looks the same on the outside.

 

 

[OCM]

The Greencastle Bank, down the road from you guys is much the same. The old original alarm box was still on the bank outside, unhooked of course. I told one of the Dillinger clan they aught to get that, don't think they did.

I've been there twice, was divided into two different shops.

 

OCM

[full auto 45]

The Greencastle Bank, down the road from you guys is much the same. The old original alarm box was still on the bank outside, unhooked of course. I told one of the Dillinger clan they aught to get that, don't think they did.

I've been there twice, was divided into two different shops.

 

OCM

I may have to look aup the Greencastle bank. Got some family out that way.

[OCM]

FYI-

Colt Chopper's real estate investment firm, End Of the Rainbow, owns a lot of commercial real estate in Greencastle and surrounding area. Might check with his VP of Acquisitions, see if you can get close ? Good Luck

[Petroleum 1]

I noticed in some photos the stocks are removed and on cc gun it is installed. It would be interesting to know if maybe nelson liked the stock on the gun where as the others preferred it removed for better concealment when they robbed banks. It might add to the mystery as to who was actually firing cc gun at that bank job.